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Axis riders

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Created by shi thouse 8 months ago, 26 Nov 2021
shi thouse
WA, 1056 posts
26 Nov 2021 10:05AM
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Just chasing some ideas on where to go to with my current foil setup. I want to increase speed and upwind ability of my current S series setup which is the 440 rear and 660 front wing. I am going to pickup a 420 rear wing and am chasing recommendations on a front wing that will still suit my current fuselage.

Cheers for any information!

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
26 Nov 2021 7:30PM
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shi thouse said..
Just chasing some ideas on where to go to with my current foil setup. I want to increase speed and upwind ability of my current S series setup which is the 440 rear and 660 front wing. I am going to pickup a 420 rear wing and am chasing recommendations on a front wing that will still suit my current fuselage.

Cheers for any information!


Does wide wings bother you? 999 seems to be the pinnacle for now, otherwise HPS series would be my guess...

Alysum
NSW, 899 posts
26 Nov 2021 11:40PM
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Definitely switch the the black fuse.

For kite HPS650/700 and 380 stab. If you want to carve more go 350p stab.

The to be released ART799 should be very interesting too.

KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
27 Nov 2021 10:39PM
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A very open question Mr Thouse. Depends a bit on what you want to spend and what conditions you want to ride

Like these guys I've also made the jump to black fuse. HPS700/crazy short/380 is dominating at the moment, just love riding it. I was cruising around in flat water at 19-20kts on a 5m koala today in 12-15kts wind, & definitely could go faster with more kite. However that's about fast enough for me. Yesterday I had it in big swell in 14-18kts with a 4m peak and was loving it, sometimes it needs to much speed for the swell and I prefer a larger slower wing. once you have a black fuse there's a while range of new wings to go for.

I see you wanted to stay with S Series fuse though, so maybe you could try one of the smaller high aspect PNG wings, 850 if you can find one 2nd hand or 910?

I would also consider the 380 rather than 420, why go the big one? Also the 16mm mast would be less draggy than 19mm..

shi thouse
WA, 1056 posts
28 Nov 2021 6:42AM
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Thanks for the info guys. Ultimately I am hoping not to have to go across to the black series as I also run a 1000ha front wing when I am winging. So the added expense of upgrading wings for the kite and the winging doesn't excite me.

The conditions I use my gear in....ocean wind swells mainly.

I am thinking the change of rear wing will make a big difference and will also look into the 380 rear.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
28 Nov 2021 9:27PM
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shi thouse said..
Thanks for the info guys. Ultimately I am hoping not to have to go across to the black series as I also run a 1000ha front wing when I am winging. So the added expense of upgrading wings for the kite and the winging doesn't excite me.

The conditions I use my gear in....ocean wind swells mainly.

I am thinking the change of rear wing will make a big difference and will also look into the 380 rear.



I haven't gone to Black fuse because I like my 660 and 760 so much. Go back and forwards between the 370 and 390 GAP rear wings... Smaller is a bit faster but less pitch stable. There's wider but higher AR that are apparently very fast too -- 460 maybe? Can you demo different combos?

Really looks like Red fuselages are going the way of the x20 series wings too... I've a brand new 820 in the cupboard, maybe I should hang onto it

Taka88
WA, 17 posts
28 Nov 2021 8:21PM
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shi thouse said..
Just chasing some ideas on where to go to with my current foil setup. I want to increase speed and upwind ability of my current S series setup which is the 440 rear and 660 front wing. I am going to pickup a 420 rear wing and am chasing recommendations on a front wing that will still suit my current fuselage.

Cheers for any information!


Pretty much in exactly the same boat, although I'm running the 680 front wing. Going to try 380 rear wing and longer mast to begin with and see how that goes, am eyeing off a black fuse and HPS700 though...

Alysum
NSW, 899 posts
1 Dec 2021 10:48PM
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Taka88 said..

shi thouse said..
Just chasing some ideas on where to go to with my current foil setup. I want to increase speed and upwind ability of my current S series setup which is the 440 rear and 660 front wing. I am going to pickup a 420 rear wing and am chasing recommendations on a front wing that will still suit my current fuselage.

Cheers for any information!



Pretty much in exactly the same boat, although I'm running the 680 front wing. Going to try 380 rear wing and longer mast to begin with and see how that goes, am eyeing off a black fuse and HPS700 though...


680 is thick and draggy so you won't be making the most out of the thin 380 stab.

I'm picking up a 350 soon, will see how it goes with my 700 (normally on 380).

StephenZ
VIC, 61 posts
2 Dec 2021 4:48PM
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Anyone tried kiting the smaller ART foils?
I've grown to love the 999 for kiting but suspect these could be even better.

Taka88
WA, 17 posts
14 Dec 2021 11:12AM
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Alysum said..

680 is thick and draggy so you won't be making the most out of the thin 380 stab.

I'm picking up a 350 soon, will see how it goes with my 700 (normally on 380).


So any thoughts then on another front wing to try? I was taking a hard look at the HPS700 but now thinking maybe ART799... Not sure which would be better, only really just started to pick-up foiling this season and still only just getting to a point where I can nearly say I'm at an intermediate level. Mostly ride in the ocean on smaller days, like the idea of riding waves/swell, and more focused on just free ride cruising type of riding. Thoughts/ideas?

KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
14 Dec 2021 8:05PM
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StephenZ said..
Anyone tried kiting the smaller ART foils?
I've grown to love the 999 for kiting but suspect these could be even better.


I have a HPS930 for light wind / learning tricks / small swell, when the 700 is too fast or not powered enough.

I have a ART899 arriving Thursday. Unfortunately my dealer, who will remain nameless, who I have much love for but can apparently be a bit of a dumbarse sometimes, sent a 799 instead. So I missed the last 6 days in a row of foiling and it should arrive just in time for kid's week and no kiting.

When it arrives I will be trying 899 vs 930 and selling whichever loses the face off.

In the time I've been waiting I've had some more great sessions with the 930, with a bigger kite I've done over 20kts in 8kts wind. With smaller kites I've had fun messing round learning tacks, ski pose, supermans, all sorts of fun stuff which the stability has been great for.

The biggest issue for me is getting up onto the foil, if the 899 has a much higher power requirement then it might not cut the mustard for this use.





KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
14 Dec 2021 8:06PM
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Alysum said..



I'm picking up a 350 soon, will see how it goes with my 700 (normally on 380).


watch how it fits, I've seen a number of reports of poor fitment. Possibly a problem with the bolt hole alignment on the new progressive series. If there's big gaps to the fuse, send it back.

Alysum
NSW, 899 posts
19 Dec 2021 8:30PM
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I've had one kite foil session on the Axis ART799.

First impressions, it has an extreme initial lift then it will stall quickly if you don't quickly level the foil. The initial lift is the quickest I've experienced on any foil and will surprise a lot of people, it's definitely for advanced riders. The 899 and 999 which I also ride (wing only) have a more gradual lift.

Once up, the 799 accelerates crazy fast and slices through the water, it's very efficient. I rode it with the 350p stab so the whole setup was quite a change from my usual 700/380 setup.

It turns well, but not as well as the 700 I felt. High aspect wings need a different turning technique too; you need to initiate the carve by pushing on the toes of the forward foot and put pressure on the back leg too. Difficult to explain, it feels like riding a plate which you have to skids into the turn.

Will the 799 replace my 700 ? Not necessarily, I enjoy how easy and forgiving the 700 is. If I want more speed and/or glide then I'll use the 799.

And the 350p stab is great, very loose I did notice the fitting isn't perfect too...

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
20 Dec 2021 7:04PM
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Nice, thanks for that.

Those Progressive stabs look nice too. I like the 390GAP but am keen to try a smaller, less anhedralled wing.

StephenZ
VIC, 61 posts
5 Jan 2022 10:43PM
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I've now had four kitinfoiling sessions on the 899.
Yesterday I got to ride it back-to-back with the 999.
It wasn't totally expected, because I usually go winging it the wind is strong, but I went out kiting on the 999 with a 3.7 cloud in the low 20 kns, with some really decent clean bay swell. I found the 999 to be too much, went back and changed down to the 899. Sensational. Just the right amount of lift, and more manoevrable, otherwise not that different. I do like good lift, but for kiting, the 899 is perfect, the 999 a little excessive.

Then today, had the opposite experience, winging, 30 knots, messy bay swell, still had the 899. Felt I prefer the little extra lift and glide of the 999, even in strong winds, even though the 899 was still brilliant. But that's just my personal preference. The 999 is fast enough and turny enough for my riding, at least in my usual conditions.

It's taken me a bit of time to get used to the ART foils, but I'm now able to do anything I can do on any other foils and then some, and the feeling is incomparable, so refined. Riding these wings had just taken everything to the next level, so stoked.

The distinguishing feature of the foils apart from the incredibly low stall speed, glide, efficiency etc, is they retain steady lift and maintain pitch stability through turns which makes them very user-friendly and intuitive to ride.

So now with 999 for winging and 899 for kiting, 375 tail, ultra short fuse, I'm pretty much all set. I'm sure the 799 is similar, just a little further on the spectrum, but I don't feel I need it

Been through countless setups to get to this point, don't do anything stupid Axis like bring out something even better!

KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
10 Jan 2022 8:59AM
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Great to hear that you've found your goldilocks foil Stephen.

The problem Axis has at the moment is there's no many new options to choose from!

I saw a recent post on the FB group where someone asked for kite foil recommendations to move from the K series. Over the course of the thread I think every single wing was recommended by someone different, from the 660 & 760 from the S series, PNG series, HPS, BSC, and ART. The take home is that there's something to suit everyone and you just have to keep trying them to find what works for you at the stage/skill level/local conditions/riding style/etc you're working with.

I've moved to the HPS wings for my kite foil, 700 and 930, with crazy short and 380 rears. Very happy with those.

I was curious about the ART and bought the 899. For me at 100kgs the take off and stall speed was too high and I didn't feel any benefits over the 930 when riding. The wing felt too high aspect. I sold mine again. Just wanted to offer an alternate viewpoint for people.

I wish Axis would do a travelling demo day roadshow, let us try all the wings without begging borrowing or stealing them.

Alysum
NSW, 899 posts
12 Jan 2022 12:07PM
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Haha yeah I feel you, way too many wings to choose from but it's good as you get a wing targeted for what you want to do/conditions.

At the moment the HPS is still the best range for general kiting.

The bigger ART sizes are just way too big for kiting. They "work" but you'd have more fun with larger HPS sizes.

warwickl
NSW, 1914 posts
12 Jan 2022 4:31PM
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For me HPS and 810 BCS with 350p.

Alysum
NSW, 899 posts
24 Jan 2022 6:29PM
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I had another kite with the ART799 over the weekend and I still prefer the HPS700 which turns much nicer.

The speed and glide of 799 is nice though if you mostly do straight line kite.

warwickl
NSW, 1914 posts
26 Jan 2022 5:48AM
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warwickl said..

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For me HPS and 810 BCS with 350p.

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Now added the 740 BCS

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warwickl
NSW, 1914 posts
27 Jan 2022 8:02PM
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Now a couple of sessions with the BSC 740 - 2 kitefoiling and today 1 wingfoiling .
In a word perfect.

Leighbreeze
WA, 516 posts
30 Mar 2022 12:12AM
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KBGhost said..
A very open question Mr Thouse. Depends a bit on what you want to spend and what conditions you want to ride

Like these guys I've also made the jump to black fuse. HPS700/crazy short/380 is dominating at the moment, just love riding it. I was cruising around in flat water at 19-20kts on a 5m koala today in 12-15kts wind, & definitely could go faster with more kite. However that's about fast enough for me. Yesterday I had it in big swell in 14-18kts with a 4m peak and was loving it, sometimes it needs to much speed for the swell and I prefer a larger slower wing. once you have a black fuse there's a while range of new wings to go for.

I see you wanted to stay with S Series fuse though, so maybe you could try one of the smaller high aspect PNG wings, 850 if you can find one 2nd hand or 910?

I would also consider the 380 rather than 420, why go the big one? Also the 16mm mast would be less draggy than 19mm..



Hey mate
Just after your opinion on 16mm 82cm Alu for heavier riders like myself at 110kgs.Currently on 19mm.Also ride bigger foils in light wind.
On Peak 4-5s

KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
31 Mar 2022 7:41AM
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Hi Leigh,

Short answer - the aly masts are cheap, buy the 16mm and if you bend it, cut above bend and keep as a shorty spare or for others learning.

Long answer - I believe it comes down to wing size. At 100 kegs I ride the HPS700 and T1 monowing on the 16mm mast no worries (typically 75cm size is what I like). It's faster.

I have stuck with the 19mm for my HPS930 - basically anything over the mid 800s (wingspan) could put too much bending force on the 16mm. I dunno where I picked that nugget up from and how accurate it is, but that's what I go by.

Leighbreeze
WA, 516 posts
2 Apr 2022 6:19PM
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Thanks mate
Yes that makes sense.With my kegs I'm better of with the 19mm .Have an 85 V2 Carbon coming.Probably wouldn't use HPS 700 Smallist being Bsc810 and upwards from there.
Still out of the water for a few weeks after a double hernia op.Frothing already op only 5 days ago,ha.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
3 Apr 2022 6:52PM
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On the Kiwi Foil FB page, there have been a couple bent 19mm masts... but they've all been big SUP or wing boards and wing combos, and got tumbled in surf. I certainly never bent one, and I've pranged into all sorts of things. I don't think you'll bend it kite foiling... well except maybe that guy who kites a 1020

Rode an ART 899 with the kite. Fast and smooth, lots of glide... way too stable and not enough low end for my tastes.

The 350p is great through, can't wait to use it with my 760.

Leighbreeze
WA, 516 posts
23 Apr 2022 10:19PM
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Kamikuza said..
On the Kiwi Foil FB page, there have been a couple bent 19mm masts... but they've all been big SUP or wing boards and wing combos, and got tumbled in surf. I certainly never bent one, and I've pranged into all sorts of things. I don't think you'll bend it kite foiling... well except maybe that guy who kites a 1020

Rode an ART 899 with the kite. Fast and smooth, lots of glide... way too stable and not enough low end for my tastes.

The 350p is great through, can't wait to use it with my 760.

Hey Kami
Yes I could imagine bigger riders ,larger foils with sup or big kiter wing boards bending most Alu masts.
Just wondering if the 999 crazy 350p May be an ok combo in light wind wing or kite for my kgs110.
Can try the 85 Carbon or 82 19mm May be a comparison with flex.
Axis crew are definitely spoiled for choice.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6390 posts
24 Apr 2022 11:08PM
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Leighbreeze said..

Kamikuza said..
On the Kiwi Foil FB page, there have been a couple bent 19mm masts... but they've all been big SUP or wing boards and wing combos, and got tumbled in surf. I certainly never bent one, and I've pranged into all sorts of things. I don't think you'll bend it kite foiling... well except maybe that guy who kites a 1020

Rode an ART 899 with the kite. Fast and smooth, lots of glide... way too stable and not enough low end for my tastes.

The 350p is great through, can't wait to use it with my 760.


Hey Kami
Yes I could imagine bigger riders ,larger foils with sup or big kiter wing boards bending most Alu masts.
Just wondering if the 999 crazy 350p May be an ok combo in light wind wing or kite for my kgs110.
Can try the 85 Carbon or 82 19mm May be a comparison with flex.
Axis crew are definitely spoiled for choice.


Too stable for my tastes. With my current gear I can get going in enough wind that if there were any less, it'd be completely pointless anyway. Apparently I'm an anomaly though, as most everyone else is happy to ride those big wings.

Mind you, I suspect that it's a function of my local: fresh water, sand beach, no currents or dangerous things like structures downwind. So if I go out and the wind drops that tiny bit more and the kite falls out of the sky, It's not actually a big deal. Unlike the naval point back home, where you risk catastrophe if the wind's just a tiny bit unruly

KBGhost
QLD, 203 posts
27 Apr 2022 9:27AM
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Leighbreeze said..

Kamikuza said..
Rode an ART 899 with the kite. Fast and smooth, lots of glide... way too stable and not enough low end for my tastes.



Just wondering if the 999 crazy 350p May be an ok combo in light wind wing or kite for my kgs110.



For me the 899 did not offer anything over the 930, wasn't noticably faster but had a higher take off & stall speed with sudden drop. Although the 999 is supposed to be much liftier, my time on the 899 was enough for me to decide that it's not a light wind kite foil series.



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"Axis riders" started by shi thouse