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Neil Pryde Glide Medium to Armstrong 1250 transition.....help! Back foot heavy?

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Created by SquintEastwood Two weeks ago, 10 Feb 2021
SquintEastwood
3 posts
10 Feb 2021 6:25AM
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So I just picked up a pocket board (Appletree Mini 3'6") as well as the Armstrong hs1250, hs232 rear w/ 0?, 85cm mast, and 60cm fuselage. When I took off it for the first time today it was completely back foot heavy. Any pressure on the front would cause it to dive. I did what felt like a wheelie one way across the river and a wheelie back and by then my thighs were on fire and I was done. I have never ever experienced this.

I ride both the NP Glide medium as well as the Zeeko spitfire (canard) and both never needed any adjustments and were just fine in the most rear track position. Adding a shim to the glide rear wing increased speed but that didn't require any mast track changes. If I move the hs1250 forward in the mast track it's' going to be in front of my back foot which too me makes no sense. This foil has to have at least as much lift as my M Glide (Area = 1262cm2) and certainly more than my Zeeko spitfire.I will go ahead and try it moving the front footstap back a bit and the foil forward until it's in the middle of the track and see if that's more balanced. I also picked up the hs850 which is waiting in the wings till I dial in the hs1250.

I thought I might have to adjust the 850 forward a bit but not the 1250 which I assumed would need to be way back. I was even tempted to put the +1 shim on it just to make sure I could keep it down.

If anyone has any insight or advice please chime in. This is just very unexpected.

p.s. There is a picture of the hs1250 setup on top of my beginner wing setup in my profile. I'm a noob here so it wouldn't let me post pictures.

CJ2478
NSW, 420 posts
10 Feb 2021 9:36AM
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SquintEastwood said..
So I just picked up a pocket board (Appletree Mini 3'6") as well as the Armstrong hs1250, hs232 rear w/ 0?, 85cm mast, and 60cm fuselage. When I took off it for the first time today it was completely back foot heavy. Any pressure on the front would cause it to dive. I did what felt like a wheelie one way across the river and a wheelie back and by then my thighs were on fire and I was done. I have never ever experienced this.

I ride both the NP Glide medium as well as the Zeeko spitfire (canard) and both never needed any adjustments and were just fine in the most rear track position. Adding a shim to the glide rear wing increased speed but that didn't require any mast track changes. If I move the hs1250 forward in the mast track it's' going to be in front of my back foot which too me makes no sense. This foil has to have at least as much lift as my M Glide (Area = 1262cm2) and certainly more than my Zeeko spitfire.I will go ahead and try it moving the front footstap back a bit and the foil forward until it's in the middle of the track and see if that's more balanced. I also picked up the hs850 which is waiting in the wings till I dial in the hs1250.

I thought I might have to adjust the 850 forward a bit but not the 1250 which I assumed would need to be way back. I was even tempted to put the +1 shim on it just to make sure I could keep it down.

If anyone has any insight or advice please chime in. This is just very unexpected.

p.s. There is a picture of the hs1250 setup on top of my beginner wing setup in my profile. I'm a noob here so it wouldn't let me post pictures.


you really just have to play with mast position on your board. I have a HS1250 as well that i recently acquired and have been adjusting to from a Naish M thrust that I used to have. havent kited it only surf, i started with it at the back of the box and now after a few sessions its almost at the front so dont be afraid to push it forward in the boxes. With mine at the front of the box the inside edge of my foot is probably about in line with the back of the mast.

havent ridden an NP but the area on the hs1250 is less than the M glide (1262cm2) and the higher aspect of the armstrong may mean it needs more speed for takeoff. apart from this you probably just need more time on it.

SquintEastwood
3 posts
10 Feb 2021 6:54AM
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Thanks CJ. I've moved it forward, perhaps I need to move it all the way forward and ease it back. I'm going to bring the tool out on the water with me so I can adjust on the fly. Another thing, when I was out, I desperately tried to push it as fast as it would go (it's FAST!!!) in hopes that it would allow me to use more of my front foot but it literally didn't do anything..just wanted to go faster..lol.

djdojo
VIC, 1586 posts
10 Feb 2021 6:30PM
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Armstrong foils will be further forward in your tracks than most. I have a narrow stance and still my rear foot is behind the mast. Once you're used to the Armstrong geometry and feel it will make sense.

dafish
NSW, 1536 posts
11 Feb 2021 8:01AM
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I came off a similar experience riding the Zeeko Spitfire and moving into the Army. I started out with the HS1250 and the 232 stab. I had similar experiences but I could get up and riding straight away. At first I struggled with gybing in one direction, having the same experience as you. I ride a 1 meter Carbon Co Nang pocketboard. I had to adjust mast position the find the sweetspot, so I would start there. 10 mm makes a big difference. I would also use the +1 shim. After further experience with the setup I cut down the stab to a 212 after having a good conversation with Dojo and that (to me) was a big improvement and smoothed out the ride a fair bit. This is a great pumping wing and I have no doubt you will dial it in in a few sessions. The only difference in our setup is I am riding a 50cm fuse and I ride strapless.

mikesids
66 posts
11 Feb 2021 11:53AM
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I wing with the Armstrong HS1250. Coming from other brands I did find them very ( too much for my taste) back footed. I always run mast right at front of tracks . Started by using the 0deg shim, then tried the +1 like all the pronies were recommending. Still no front foot pressure. Finally tried the -2 shim and that sorted it, now is nicely balanced at speed. So my advice is to try that. Hope it helps

Swavek
WA, 360 posts
17 Feb 2021 7:14AM
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Used to ride Moses 633 - mast all the way back.
Now ride Armstrong 1050 - mast all the way forward, +1 shim, 232 stab, 85cm mast.

Took a few sessions to get used to the little front foot pressure (even with the mast fully forward) - used to nose dive a lot to start with, not a problem anymore. I would not call it back leg heavy, it is quite balanced stance between front and back foot vs. front foot heavy on Moses 633. It is nice to have a balanced stance.

Like Armstrong for its more less stable lift regardless of speed - Moses 633 lift kept on going up as the speed went up.

hilly
WA, 5907 posts
17 Feb 2021 9:53AM
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Moving mast forward reduces swing weight so you can turn easier. I am a back foot heavy surfer so love the Armie foil. -2 shim is good as well making them turn even better. It is draggy though on bigger waves, not winging/kiting around.

dafish
NSW, 1536 posts
17 Feb 2021 3:19PM
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I find that when I am just cruising my back foot is more forward. When I am riding swell or breaking wave or doing tons of carving turns my foot is more on the tail block. Once I got used to this foil it feels no different than any other that I have ridden. They all have a sweet spot. In this clip I tried to show different feet placements as best I could.

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CFLKiter
12 posts
18 Feb 2021 3:16AM
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I have recently made the switch to the 1250 as well. Coming from a slingshot i76 I do notice I need to move the foil further forward in the box but only half way. Really like the 1250 so far. Glide is impressive for sure. Seems to be much easier to stall this wing when pushing to hard when on the higher side of the speed range. Probably just need to get used to the higher aspect foil but I feel like I have to think about it more before cranking a really hard turn which might stall the foil.

Starting to think about getting a step down wing. Wondering if skipping the 1150 and going for the 850 would create to big of a gap. I like to depower the kite(peak4) And just ride the wave. Probably will end up with all three in the end.

CFLKiter
12 posts
18 Feb 2021 3:20AM
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And I am using the +1 shim. Need to try the 0 to see if I like the turns better.

dafish
NSW, 1536 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:50AM
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CFLKiter said..
I have recently made the switch to the 1250 as well. Coming from a slingshot i76 I do notice I need to move the foil further forward in the box but only half way. Really like the 1250 so far. Glide is impressive for sure. Seems to be much easier to stall this wing when pushing to hard when on the higher side of the speed range. Probably just need to get used to the higher aspect foil but I feel like I have to think about it more before cranking a really hard turn which might stall the foil.

Starting to think about getting a step down wing. Wondering if skipping the 1150 and going for the 850 would create to big of a gap. I like to depower the kite(peak4) And just ride the wave. Probably will end up with all three in the end.


I guess it would depend on your weight and riding style. I step up from the hs850 to the 1250 when the wind really drops. I am 82 kilos and I believe I could extract a pretty large wind range with the 850

Kamikuza
QLD, 5834 posts
21 Feb 2021 7:34PM
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SquintEastwood said..
in the most rear track position



You'll have to trim the foil by moving it's position in the tracks... assuming you can.

Take the back strap off so you can move your foot around...

SquintEastwood
3 posts
21 Feb 2021 10:13PM
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Thanks everyone. I love this forum. My buddy married and Aussie and moved to Melbourne..he must have been on to something. I live in the Treasure Coast of Florida but really appreciate the comradery and helpfulness found on this forum. I moved the mast forward all the way and it helped allot. I can now get up on foil and even managed a couple toe side turns in really sketchy conditions. Catching the 2-2.5 foot windchop was super awesome. It just glides right along. I'm loving it. I'm still burying the nose when riding toeside, it seems that's when it's hard for me to control my speed. On my other foils the faster you go the more front foot pressure you have to exert and like Swavek mentioned, the faster you go the more back foot pressure you need. Mikesids mentioned the -2 shim and that would make sense. Those that mentioned the +1 shim have me confused because the +1 will ought to lessen the front foot pressure. I'll have to check it out.

Anyway, you guys are awesome! Thanks!

p.s. Just picked up the 625 used and look forward to giving that a go

kobo
NSW, 519 posts
5 hours ago , 2 Mar 2021 9:40PM
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-2 =the most front foot pressure, 0 = neutral , +1 = the least pressure on front foot.



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"Neil Pryde Glide Medium to Armstrong 1250 transition.....help! Back foot heavy?" started by SquintEastwood