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Duotone Neo strut valves

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Created by Andrash Two weeks ago, 4 Sep 2020
Andrash
WA, 582 posts
4 Sep 2020 11:53AM
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I have been using the 9m and 7m in the past few days. They are 2020 models practically new. However, I can't close the valves to the struts properly no matter how tight I press them. When I deflate the kites, the struts loose most pressure too. I have never had this problem with other brands, so I wonder whether there is something special with this version of the Neo. it is the same for all struts of the 7m and 9m, so it is not one individual fault.
Anyone has seen or know about this problem and solution?
Thanks

Puetz
NT, 2166 posts
4 Sep 2020 2:46PM
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Andrash said..
I have been using the 9m and 7m in the past few days. They are 2020 models practically new. However, I can't close the valves to the struts properly no matter how tight I press them. When I deflate the kites, the struts loose most pressure too. I have never had this problem with other brands, so I wonder whether there is something special with this version of the Neo. it is the same for all struts of the 7m and 9m, so it is not one individual fault.
Anyone has seen or know about this problem and solution?
Thanks


... are you talking about the clips that clamp off the hoses are not working??

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
4 Sep 2020 1:56PM
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Andrash said..
I have been using the 9m and 7m in the past few days. They are 2020 models practically new. However, I can't close the valves to the struts properly no matter how tight I press them. When I deflate the kites, the struts loose most pressure too. I have never had this problem with other brands, so I wonder whether there is something special with this version of the Neo. it is the same for all struts of the 7m and 9m, so it is not one individual fault.
Anyone has seen or know about this problem and solution?
Thanks


Yes, that's the one, i.e. which stops the struts deflating when the LE deflates.

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
4 Sep 2020 2:50PM
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My advice is to take the clamps out of their covers and see if the clamps actually work. If they don't then I'd suggest changing the plastic clamps. We've got plenty of spares if you want some, just send me a PM.

In case they work outside the cover then it's most likely due to the cover itself that is pinching in the clamp when you press it down. Sometimes it's just a matter of moving the cover around so it doesn't interfere with the clamping mechanism.

All that being said, some clamps tend to hold better than others across various brands and years.

Hope this helps

Christian

Puetz
NT, 2166 posts
4 Sep 2020 11:16PM
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Airborne said..
My advice is to take the clamps out of their covers and see if the clamps actually work. If they don't then I'd suggest changing the plastic clamps. We've got plenty of spares if you want some, just send me a PM.

In case they work outside the cover then it's most likely due to the cover itself that is pinching in the clamp when you press it down. Sometimes it's just a matter of moving the cover around so it doesn't interfere with the clamping mechanism.

All that being said, some clamps tend to hold better than others across various brands and years.

Hope this helps

Christian


... yep,,, and to add a little more info from my experiences....

If the kite has spent time in the tropics or with a bit of heat due to storage location, then the hoses can get a bit sticky internally, as in, the rubber may be breaking down somewhat and therefore the internal tube is sticky closed.

And yes, before anyone says different, not just Duotone but other brands seem to suffer the same fate.

Anyway, a couple things for you to check out.

Cheers,

Robbie

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
5 Sep 2020 7:14AM
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Thanks, I will check the clamps today. As the kites are practically new, latest model, any wear and tear is out of questions. The facts, that none of the clamps worked properly on two different Neos and I never had similar problems with my previous kites of other brands, suggested that there may be something extra I needed to do or be aware with this brand. I was wondering if others, riding duotone kites, have had similar problems and foud some simple solutions. Otherwise,the kites fly great as expected.

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
5 Sep 2020 8:23AM
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Andrash said..
Thanks, I will check the clamps today. As the kites are practically new, latest model, any wear and tear is out of questions. The facts, that none of the clamps worked properly on two different Neos and I never had similar problems with my previous kites of other brands, suggested that there may be something extra I needed to do or be aware with this brand. I was wondering if others, riding duotone kites, have had similar problems and foud some simple solutions. Otherwise,the kites fly great as expected.


The thing is that the majority of kiters never close their struts

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
5 Sep 2020 9:14AM
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Airborne said..

Andrash said..
Thanks, I will check the clamps today. As the kites are practically new, latest model, any wear and tear is out of questions. The facts, that none of the clamps worked properly on two different Neos and I never had similar problems with my previous kites of other brands, suggested that there may be something extra I needed to do or be aware with this brand. I was wondering if others, riding duotone kites, have had similar problems and foud some simple solutions. Otherwise,the kites fly great as expected.



The thing is that the majority of kiters never close their struts


Hmmm... not sure about the statistical basis of your statement referring to "the majority of kiters", but I had one experience of LE failure when my inflated struts saved me from a very long swim. Obviously, those clips / closures are there for a reason that everyone, who ever had to roll up and swim to shore with a totally deflated kite in 20+kn, knows. It would be great to read the experience of Duotone riders who use the clips.
Thanks.

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
5 Sep 2020 9:48AM
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Andrash said..

Airborne said..


Andrash said..
Thanks, I will check the clamps today. As the kites are practically new, latest model, any wear and tear is out of questions. The facts, that none of the clamps worked properly on two different Neos and I never had similar problems with my previous kites of other brands, suggested that there may be something extra I needed to do or be aware with this brand. I was wondering if others, riding duotone kites, have had similar problems and foud some simple solutions. Otherwise,the kites fly great as expected.




The thing is that the majority of kiters never close their struts



Hmmm... not sure about the statistical basis of your statement referring to "the majority of kiters", but I had one experience of LE failure when my inflated struts saved me from a very long swim. Obviously, those clips / closures are there for a reason that everyone, who ever had to roll up and swim to shore with a totally deflated kite in 20+kn, knows. It would be great to read the experience of Duotone riders who use the clips.
Thanks.


Andrash, I've been teaching kitesurfing full time at the same beach for 10 years. Being upwind of everyone else I have observed thousands of kiters setup and pack down their kites over the years. I can tell you without a doubt that at least 80% of kiters don't close their struts after inflating their kite.

towradgi
NSW, 317 posts
5 Sep 2020 1:09PM
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Yeh , me and 4 other kiters have never bothered clipping struts, only the 2 females at our beach always did.

Nathe
WA, 412 posts
5 Sep 2020 1:08PM
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Well I must be that 20% who do or a female as some people put it. I've had a leading edge go and had to do the swim , was thankful to still have struts that floated so I wasn't towing a sea anchor. The 80% you've observed a probably in a river ,closed waters or bloody close to shore. If you venture offshore to reefs clipping struts is a pretty good idea. Damn sure the kite designers didn't put them there just for women and looks

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
5 Sep 2020 1:28PM
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Nathe said..
Well I must be that 20% who do or a female as some people put it. I've had a leading edge go and had to do the swim , was thankful to still have struts that floated so I wasn't towing a sea anchor. The 80% you've observed a probably in a river ,closed waters or bloody close to shore. If you venture offshore to reefs clipping struts is a pretty good idea. Damn sure the kite designers didn't put them there just for women and looks





I teach in deep water...our spot is 100% deep water... gets deep right off the beach. Don't get me wrong, we teach all our students to close their struts and encourage everyone to do it, it's just that if you take the time to observe many kiters, you would notice only a minority close their struts. I rescued many kiters over the years with punctured Leading Edges, none of them had their struts closed.

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1375 posts
5 Sep 2020 4:54PM
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Have to be honest, I only clip my struts on long down winders. I probably should.

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
5 Sep 2020 8:24PM
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Mr Airborn, it might be just the wording of your post, but if you have been teaching for 10 years with such ignorance of safety issues, and you still teach, then you are either lucky or have a very good insurance. In my 20 years of kiting, i have seen plenty of "lucky" guys in deep trouble (including myself). I suggest you try yourself, and include in your teaching, an exercise of rolling up and getting to shore an entirely deflated kite, but do it not more than 100m from shore, otherwise you may not make it for dinner on time.

Indeed, I haven't needed my quick release for about 15 years and (i hope) most kiters did not either. Does this suggest they are not so important...? Or important only for girls... (with grey bears like me :- )

I had a run on my 7m this avo. I compressed the clips with such force that I was worried to break them. At the end of the session only the middle strut held, the two others deflated with the leading edge. I have flown Slingshots, Ozones and Cabs in the past 10 years with absolutely no problem with closing the strut valves with normal force which even a child can exert. It is absolutely unreasonable having to apply extreme force on a Duotone kite. I suspect, the tubes are made of a harder material which cannot be closed easily.

So, Duotone, you put out a great kite, but it has an obvious safety issue. If any of your reps read this forum, this is the time to act... I mean now. When the legal issue of duty of care arises, it's usually too late.

Cheers guys, have fun and stay safe.

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
5 Sep 2020 9:02PM
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.

Airborne
WA, 216 posts
5 Sep 2020 9:22PM
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Andrash said..
Mr Airborn, it might be just the wording of your post, but if you have been teaching for 10 years with such ignorance of safety issues, and you still teach, then you are either lucky or have a very good insurance. In my 20 years of kiting, i have seen plenty of "lucky" guys in deep trouble (including myself). I suggest you try yourself, and include in your teaching, an exercise of rolling up and getting to shore an entirely deflated kite, but do it not more than 100m from shore, otherwise you may not make it for dinner on time.

Indeed, I haven't needed my quick release for about 15 years and (i hope) most kiters did not either. Does this suggest they are not so important...? Or important only for girls... (with grey bears like me :- )

I had a run on my 7m this avo. I compressed the clips with such force that I was worried to break them. At the end of the session only the middle strut held, the two others deflated with the leading edge. I have flown Slingshots, Ozones and Cabs in the past 10 years with absolutely no problem with closing the strut valves with normal force which even a child can exert. It is absolutely unreasonable having to apply extreme force on a Duotone kite. I suspect, the tubes are made of a harder material which cannot be closed easily.

So, Duotone, you put out a great kite, but it has an obvious safety issue. If any of your reps read this forum, this is the time to act... I mean now. When the legal issue of duty of care arises, it's usually too late.

Cheers guys, have fun and stay safe.






Andrash,

You completely misunderstood my posts.

I would suggest you re-read them more carefully.

Clipping struts has been something I've been teaching from my first lesson back in 2010.

I even carry a naked clip on me so the student can understand how the mechanism works (because it's hard to see and understand it for the first time when it's under a cover). Good luck finding another instructor who goes that far in explaining how it works.

We even show that process in details our video tutorials.



We also have video tutorials that covers the full pack down self-rescue shot with a drone:


What our students do and what I observe from non-students of ours are two very different things.

My observations about kiters not closing their struts is about non students i.e. people who have nothing to do with our school.

Also, the kiters I rescued with deflated kites were not students nor ex-students but random kiters at our beach

You'd like to think that everyone follows common sense and logic and closes their struts like you do but the reality is most people don't.

If you have an issue with your product contact your local dealer where you bought the kite and get warranty replacement parts, it's that simple. If you don't have any luck with that I can provide you some spare hoses and spare clips that work.

Another thing to consider is that struts clips tend to re-open more easily when the kites are overinflated or after a hard crash.

Good luck

Christian

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
5 Sep 2020 9:42PM
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Airborne said..

Andrash said..
Mr Airborn, it might be just the wording of your post, but if you have been teaching for 10 years with such ignorance of safety issues, and you still teach, then you are either lucky or have a very good insurance. In my 20 years of kiting, i have seen plenty of "lucky" guys in deep trouble (including myself). I suggest you try yourself, and include in your teaching, an exercise of rolling up and getting to shore an entirely deflated kite, but do it not more than 100m from shore, otherwise you may not make it for dinner on time.

Indeed, I haven't needed my quick release for about 15 years and (i hope) most kiters did not either. Does this suggest they are not so important...? Or important only for girls... (with grey bears like me :- )

I had a run on my 7m this avo. I compressed the clips with such force that I was worried to break them. At the end of the session only the middle strut held, the two others deflated with the leading edge. I have flown Slingshots, Ozones and Cabs in the past 10 years with absolutely no problem with closing the strut valves with normal force which even a child can exert. It is absolutely unreasonable having to apply extreme force on a Duotone kite. I suspect, the tubes are made of a harder material which cannot be closed easily.

So, Duotone, you put out a great kite, but it has an obvious safety issue. If any of your reps read this forum, this is the time to act... I mean now. When the legal issue of duty of care arises, it's usually too late.

Cheers guys, have fun and stay safe.




You completely misunderstood my posts. I would suggest you re-read them more carefully.

Clipping struts have been something I've been teaching from day 1. I even carry a naked clip on me so the student can understand how it works because it's hard to see how it works under the cover. We show that in our video tutorials and even made video tutorials about full pack down self rescue with a drone. What our students do and what I observe from non students of ours are two very different things. My observations about kiters not closing their struts is about non students i.e. people who have nothing to do with our school


Ok, I might have misunderstood you, as some others may have done too. I apologize. However, your initial posts did not suggest that you as an instructor and shop representative took this an important safety issue, and even your last post suggests you care only about what your students do. It is also unclear from your posts whether you fly or teach or know about Duotone kites at all.

I suggest, you focus on the real issue here, i.e. the safety of the kites, if you have anything relevant to say. It is all about Duotone, or, more specifically, about my three Duotone Neo kites and whether anyone else, flying these kites, have similar issues.

Make no mistake, I absolutely love how these monsters fly, but so did Boing 737 MAX's.

10 Sep 2020 11:41AM
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We use a lot of Duotone kites both in the school and personally.

I will say they can take a little bit more force than some other brands, the hoses are quite thick and they do need a fair bit of pressure on them. If you don't quite get that last "click" they'll often let out a little air.

They should seal to effectively 100% though, I've tested bladders etc. with just the hose clipped up not connect to anything plenty of times and had no issue.

Someone suggested above taking off the covers and making sure they actually work, give this a shot for sure. Have a look at the little teeth on the clip and make sure you're clamping it right down, they really need that last little notch to seal properly in my experience.

If you have trouble clamping them properly, you can also apply a little pressure to the toothed side to allow it to clamp down further with ease.


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Airborne said..
The thing is that the majority of kiters never close their struts


I'll throw my hat in here and back this one up!

Of course you always should. I always do. We teach everyone to do it. All our students do it for at least the first half a dozen times they go kiting... then they get slack.

Same as testing your release regularly and just about any other safety/maintenance issue. People get complacent and it's normally not until they've had personal experience with it as an issue that they realise it's actually important.

There are a certain percentage of safety conscious people who will always take the precautions... and then there is different percentage who need to learn the hard way

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
16 Sep 2020 9:14PM
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Thanks for the comments. It's true, if I apply significant force I can close the tubes. I've done a couple of sessions on both kites now and I had no issue, but the force must be much more than on the other brands I've flown.

I was actually seriously suggesting to include into the lessons a crash management when the students needs to roll up a totally deflated kite and swim to shore (50m). It's my distant memory now, but I still remember the struggle of rolling up the bar, lines and then the kite in 20kn with reasonable seas, even with inflated struts... and then floating on them while catching breath.... I was way out, I am not sure if I could have made it with deflated struts.

Puetz
NT, 2166 posts
Friday , 18 Sep 2020 10:06AM
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Andrash said..
Thanks for the comments. It's true, if I apply significant force I can close the tubes. I've done a couple of sessions on both kites now and I had no issue, but the force must be much more than on the other brands I've flown.

I was actually seriously suggesting to include into the lessons a crash management when the students needs to roll up a totally deflated kite and swim to shore (50m). It's my distant memory now, but I still remember the struggle of rolling up the bar, lines and then the kite in 20kn with reasonable seas, even with inflated struts... and then floating on them while catching breath.... I was way out, I am not sure if I could have made it with deflated struts.


... by the sounds of it, you don't have the original hoses on ya kites.

Out of curiosity, what colour are the hoses on your kites?

Robbie

Andrash
WA, 582 posts
Friday , 18 Sep 2020 9:44AM
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Puetz said..

Andrash said..
Thanks for the comments. It's true, if I apply significant force I can close the tubes. I've done a couple of sessions on both kites now and I had no issue, but the force must be much more than on the other brands I've flown.

I was actually seriously suggesting to include into the lessons a crash management when the students needs to roll up a totally deflated kite and swim to shore (50m). It's my distant memory now, but I still remember the struggle of rolling up the bar, lines and then the kite in 20kn with reasonable seas, even with inflated struts... and then floating on them while catching breath.... I was way out, I am not sure if I could have made it with deflated struts.



... by the sounds of it, you don't have the original hoses on ya kites.

Out of curiosity, what colour are the hoses on your kites?

Robbie


They are kind of turquoise, matching the rest of the kites. How could latest model, practically new, kites not have the original hose...???... and on all struts? Why would anyone replace them...??

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 919 posts
Friday , 18 Sep 2020 1:15PM
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Those clips are readily available in hospitals, as they are also used there for intravenous hoses and drips. If they are not holding themselves in place, take it out and push the bit with the small teeth and bend it forward. It will then be back to new almost.

Puetz
NT, 2166 posts
Saturday , 19 Sep 2020 6:28AM
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Andrash said..

Puetz said..


Andrash said..
Thanks for the comments. It's true, if I apply significant force I can close the tubes. I've done a couple of sessions on both kites now and I had no issue, but the force must be much more than on the other brands I've flown.

I was actually seriously suggesting to include into the lessons a crash management when the students needs to roll up a totally deflated kite and swim to shore (50m). It's my distant memory now, but I still remember the struggle of rolling up the bar, lines and then the kite in 20kn with reasonable seas, even with inflated struts... and then floating on them while catching breath.... I was way out, I am not sure if I could have made it with deflated struts.




... by the sounds of it, you don't have the original hoses on ya kites.

Out of curiosity, what colour are the hoses on your kites?

Robbie



They are kind of turquoise, matching the rest of the kites. How could latest model, practically new, kites not have the original hose...???... and on all struts? Why would anyone replace them...??


... reason I asked is a few hoses on a few older kites here (Darwin NT) have been replaced and the new hoses are stiffer, less rubbery so clips seem to 'let go' during normal use even though you've clipped them to what you think is hard. These new replacement hoses are black in colour.

I was thinking if others around the country were replacing them with these after-market hoses, be aware, heads up that the clips may need attention.

Cheers,

Robbie



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"Duotone Neo strut valves" started by Andrash