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Light wind Ram/foil Kite

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Created by FoS 5 months ago, 20 Jun 2019
FoS
TAS, 1649 posts
20 Jun 2019 1:28PM
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Hay all
I'm thinking I need a 15m ish Ram air kite for the 10 knot days in hobart.
I'm getting a bit toey- I haven't kited for a few weeks now because of light winds and tasmanian winter conditions.

Can someone suggest a good kite - I'm not looking at racing just getting out, maybe some jumps?
Or are race kites in this size OK for goofing around and not to technical ?

Thanks in advance

ActionSportsWA
WA, 725 posts
21 Jun 2019 10:03AM
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Hi FoS,

You need a Flysurfer Soul. If you get yourself a 15m or even an 18m, you will be a very happy camper. Loads of power, excellent upwind ability, floaty jumps, simple relaunch in anything over 6 knots and super stable and durable. Anyone can fly one of these kites without too much difficulty.

They're also lightweight for traveling and super fast to launch and land and you can leave the pump at home. If you google Flysurfer Soul, there are tonnes of glowing review videos and how to's.

actionsportswa.com.au/product/flysurfer-soul/

You can use a race kite, but they are more technical, less stable and very fragile, not ideal for freerideing on a TT. Only use a race kite for racing on foils.

DM

FoS
TAS, 1649 posts
21 Jun 2019 12:07PM
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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi FoS,

You need a Flysurfer Soul. If you get yourself a 15m or even an 18m, you will be a very happy camper. Loads of power, excellent upwind ability, floaty jumps, simple relaunch in anything over 6 knots and super stable and durable. Anyone can fly one of these kites without too much difficulty.

They're also lightweight for traveling and super fast to launch and land and you can leave the pump at home. If you google Flysurfer Soul, there are tonnes of glowing review videos and how to's.

actionsportswa.com.au/product/flysurfer-soul/

You can use a race kite, but they are more technical, less stable and very fragile, not ideal for freerideing on a TT. Only use a race kite for racing on foils.

DM



Cool,
I'm coming over in November for a few weeks, do you have a demo or similar?
Maybe at the kite fest in dongara ?

Also your ssl cert is not valid on your website, let me know if you need a hand with that.
ignore that just stupid work proxy

causehecan
WA, 668 posts
24 Jun 2019 2:53PM
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Got any videos of the soul being kitelooped both hooked in and unhooked? Preferably a larger size one 15m

weebitbreezy
415 posts
24 Jun 2019 8:55PM
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causehecan said..
Got any videos of the soul being kitelooped both hooked in and unhooked? Preferably a larger size one 15m


There were some on olly Bridges facebook page. You'll have to search for the big sizes though.

Tom Bridge had some footage of his brother Guy doing handlepasses on a hydrofoil recently too (pretty sure that was on a big foil kite)

ActionSportsWA
WA, 725 posts
31 Jul 2019 4:15PM
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Hi FoS,

Yes, we will have the Souls at WIndfest.

DM

Gorgo
VIC, 4274 posts
8 Aug 2019 3:25PM
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Can you tell us anything positive about the Pansh Aurora? I am happy to believe that they might be good but at the moment I am suspicious.

I've seen two people with them and they both spend more time on the beach tweaking bridles to try and get the kites to fly. I suspect they bought them cheap second hand, but that's not very inspiring.

The web site sucks. It says lots but none of it is particularly meaningful. The purchase process feels more like a phishing site than an actual shop.

They call it a high aspect, high performance kite. There's no proper technical data but 31 cells and 4-5:1 aspect doesn't sound very high performance to me. The Soul and Chrono have 41 cells. Soul is 35 cells and 5:1AR in the small sizes and 42 cells and 5.5AR rising to 6:1 in the larger sizes. That at least tells you that Ozone and Flysurfer didn't just scale a single kite to make all the sizes (not that scaling is necessarily a bad thing).

The review videos are all of old kooks mowing the lawn. Even then they make some of the transitions look like hard work. No tacks. No flying gybes. Old French dudes doing shakas.

The one positive review I saw had the guy re-tweaking the bridle to get it to fly properly. It all sounds a bit half-arsed.

They talk about double cells on the "ending edge" as something revolutionary. The rest of the industry calls them mini-ribs and they've been around for years. Mini-ribs are starting to be added to the leading edge and the results have been encouraging. They give super clean leading edges and effective cell counts up around 80 cells without the cost, weight and complexity.

There's no mention of internal rib structures that all the name brands use. These structures greatly improve canopy stiffness without adding more bridle lines.






I am skeptical that the magnetic blow out valves would have any useful effect. Foil kites blow cells because of a shockwave travelling through the canopy. It's a not a pressure build up that has to be released. Often the tear is in the internal ribs through the crossport vents (more reason to have more optimised internal structures). Release valves were tried years ago and didn't work.

causehecan
WA, 668 posts
9 Aug 2019 11:21AM
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Sorry lofty but i second everything gorgo just said.

And im pretty sure any other jellyfish will aswell. You really need to look into what a high end paragliders tech sheet looks like to see what were not seeing in the pansh kites.

www.xcontest.org/world/en/flights/detail:chrigel/2.6.2019/07:06




www.advance.ch/en/omega-xalps/

Theyre is quite a difference happening when i go to check out pansh. No world titles or champions no gloss or spit and polish.

But if i go and sus out ozone and flysurfer (ala ozone and skywalk) you do see a fair bit of that gloss come thru and some better numbers.

And for me its not just about the product and costs. When i drop a few thousand on a kite or a wing i really think about who directly is going to recieve my money ? Have i had beers with them? Have i caused them to be thrown out of a casino/restaurant/bar/pool hall/resort cause of my drunken behaviour did they give me some shirts.


but also in the brand itself. Are they spending money into the fields i believe the sport should be excelling at? Or are they just in it for a safe bet not researching or developing? They may have a great product but if theyre not pushing the boundarys of my specific style im simply not as likely going to see a future product that will blow my mind and make me happier.

If all i wanted to do was mow the lawn and throw up a shaka on the weekend to my fellow grey nomadians then yea a pansh might do me fine but so could a zian (have you heard the gossip on them lately?)

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 822 posts
11 Aug 2019 12:48PM
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You are both perfectly correct.
I admit the FS Ozones etc are far better made kites, and have much more technical advances than a Pansh. They are well suited for intermediate to professional riders that get what they've paid for - a kite that is specifically designed for their style and discipline of wind powered sports.
However, for the beginner, the mums and dads that are not cash laden, are mowers of the lawn, with the occasional jump or simple turns, PANSH kites are far better value for money.
You get what you pay for in life. I completely understand that. But at the prices the "professional" kites are made for, yes they are worth every dollar. For someone like myself that is time poor, runs several businesses and raising a family, I am more than happy with my Pansh selection. They work! They had a **** reputation back 8 years ago but things have improved, and I bet my Aurora II that until any of you try it, don't bag it. Yes, I have tried the soul, but for me as per the above lifestyle, it's really much of a muchness.
At the end of the day I am stoked to have ridden out there, had good upwind and less hassles with the gear than worrying I would crash a Soul and blow it apart.
Frankly, I've had zero problems with the Pansh kites, and more issues with the bar and lines - non Pansh bar and lines.
Time for me to upgrade the control panels.

Gorgo
VIC, 4274 posts
13 Aug 2019 4:18PM
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Single skin kite with a valved ram air leading edge tube. ie. relaunchable.

www.ginkites.com/shop/marabou/

balsa
VIC, 27 posts
16 Aug 2019 8:00PM
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NorthernKitesAUS said..
Souls are way over priced. In fact most foil kites are way over priced. I know I will get spat on, yet again, but you want a good and I mean good foil kite? Try the Pansh Aurora II 15 or 18m sizes. Lots of videos of happy riders on these Pansh kites, well because they work. What do I know, right?


Thanks for posting your experience with Pansh kites. I have always wanted a foil kite but considered them too expensive for me until I went to the Pansh website. I did a bit of checking of reviews and all seem very positive on the more recent models. So thanks again for posting and taking the hits.

mauikiteboarder
1 posts
28 Aug 2019 4:19PM
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Being a diehard foil kiter and longtime kiter in Maui, I am lucky to experience kites on their upper limits regularly. Just this week I watched a flysurfer soul 10m blow up all of its internal ribs and cells in the center sections. It only takes one good tomahawk on those kites and your spending some serious money to fix, but even after a repair Im wondering how much your really gonna trust it for your big air kite.....This is just me but I prefer the ozones way more for performance and durability, especially the chrono v3.

Never seen or tried pansh kites but why not a good kite for the weekend warrior? As long as they having fun and hitting high upwind angles, good on them! Saving the money makes sense, I would rather blow up a few pansh kites trying new tricks and have backups vs dealing with one soul thats got issues

Samuellae
NSW, 37 posts
27 Oct 2019 8:54AM
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I run a Chrono V2 15m, pick it up for $1200 second hand, about 2 years old.
I really like it~ doesn't really seem to needs any special skills once it's flying...it's slow turning but comparable to same size Inflatables. I'm using a small bar at the moment, so going to switch to a much wider bar for better turn leverage.


I have rode it pretty hard, and up to about 18 knots...no problems with it so far. Bridles look like a nightmare but have actually been way less hassle than I thought they would be (this is my first foil kite). The set up time is the same or less than a tube kite.
Water relaunch in light wind is hard but doable. Water pack up and swim- I've done once (wind died while I was foiling)...I left it a bit long in the water and it filled up with water. I do not recommend this....when it's full of water you can't really roll it up properly in the water. Lines and bridles get all messed up...I was up for a long swim, but luckily I got a hand from some kayakers.

I don't know about any other foil kites, but there are a butt load of bridles going on so I wouldn't want to have to adjust any if some of them require that.

A 15 foil kite IMO would slay 10 knots Hobart, they sit further forward in the window so you get more upwind pull, leaving you more room to jump. Hang time and depower are superior to Tubes too.
Get a hydrofoil/surfboard/door and ur laughing.

snalberski
WA, 656 posts
28 Oct 2019 7:56AM
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I use 15m lines on my 12m Hyperlink which make ot much more nimble

KPSS Used
NSW, 245 posts
Site Sponsor
29 Oct 2019 6:27AM
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Samuellae said..
I run a Chrono V2 15m, pick it up for $1200 second hand, about 2 years old.
I really like it~ doesn't really seem to needs any special skills once it's flying...it's slow turning but comparable to same size Inflatables. I'm using a small bar at the moment, so going to switch to a much wider bar for better turn leverage.


I have rode it pretty hard, and up to about 18 knots...no problems with it so far. Bridles look like a nightmare but have actually been way less hassle than I thought they would be (this is my first foil kite). The set up time is the same or less than a tube kite.
Water relaunch in light wind is hard but doable. Water pack up and swim- I've done once (wind died while I was foiling)...I left it a bit long in the water and it filled up with water. I do not recommend this....when it's full of water you can't really roll it up properly in the water. Lines and bridles get all messed up...I was up for a long swim, but luckily I got a hand from some kayakers.

I don't know about any other foil kites, but there are a butt load of bridles going on so I wouldn't want to have to adjust any if some of them require that.

A 15 foil kite IMO would slay 10 knots Hobart, they sit further forward in the window so you get more upwind pull, leaving you more room to jump. Hang time and depower are superior to Tubes too.
Get a hydrofoil/surfboard/door and ur laughing.


The bar is was designed for is 55cm wide.

Samuellae
NSW, 37 posts
30 Oct 2019 8:59PM
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KPSS Used said..

Samuellae said..
I run a Chrono V2 15m, pick it up for $1200 second hand, about 2 years old.
I really like it~ doesn't really seem to needs any special skills once it's flying...it's slow turning but comparable to same size Inflatables. I'm using a small bar at the moment, so going to switch to a much wider bar for better turn leverage.


I have rode it pretty hard, and up to about 18 knots...no problems with it so far. Bridles look like a nightmare but have actually been way less hassle than I thought they would be (this is my first foil kite). The set up time is the same or less than a tube kite.
Water relaunch in light wind is hard but doable. Water pack up and swim- I've done once (wind died while I was foiling)...I left it a bit long in the water and it filled up with water. I do not recommend this....when it's full of water you can't really roll it up properly in the water. Lines and bridles get all messed up...I was up for a long swim, but luckily I got a hand from some kayakers.

I don't know about any other foil kites, but there are a butt load of bridles going on so I wouldn't want to have to adjust any if some of them require that.

A 15 foil kite IMO would slay 10 knots Hobart, they sit further forward in the window so you get more upwind pull, leaving you more room to jump. Hang time and depower are superior to Tubes too.
Get a hydrofoil/surfboard/door and ur laughing.



The bar is was designed for is 55cm wide.


Arh that sounds better, yeah the small one I had just happened to line up with all the ties...time to put together some adaptors for the wider bar

pari
NSW, 1 posts
8 Nov 2019 3:40PM
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There's a Flysurfer Speed 4 for sale on Seabreeze for $990. You'd be better of buying that than buying a new Pansh. I've owned a Speed 3 12m deluxe which replaced a Pansh A15 12m, Speed 3 was way better and I paid less for that second hand than the new A15. I now own a Soul 12m. This kite is a joy to fly, so much fun, insanely good kite. There's also a second hand Soul 15m on here but it is $2500 with bar, if you could afford it you get what you pay for, a fantastic kite.

Dixie777
NT, 2 posts
10 Nov 2019 11:49AM
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Hi i been kiting since the early days. 1998 i started on a flexi blade. Learned to kite surf on it...I have owned flysurfer Speeds for years. Loved them and know them inside out. I was given an Aurora II 12m to try...being a flysurfer snob i scoffed at it......it didnt work with the Pansh bar so i used a fly surfer bar spent 5 mins adjusting the back line lengths and sure enough...it worked. I swapped a board for it and been using it ever since. I would compare the performance to a Speed 2... build quality is no where near as good as Flysurfer the zips and velcro WILL fail after 12 months but easy to replace. They work in a pretty narrow wind range and like most foils dont like gusty conditions. On a clean 20 to 25 knots these kites work as well as any other foil i have used..im old school style board offs etc....to jump high you need to send from roughly 10 o clock then yank the bar in and redirect immediately..its a different technique to inflatos....but the float is outstanding and you glide back down.....horses for courses...so nothing wrong with Pansh except build quality and tuning to your style.

BrisKites
QLD, 1256 posts
11 Nov 2019 12:30PM
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Dixie777 said..
Hi i been kiting since the early days. 1998 i started on a flexi blade. Learned to kite surf on it...I have owned flysurfer Speeds for years. Loved them and know them inside out. I was given an Aurora II 12m to try...being a flysurfer snob i scoffed at it......it didnt work with the Pansh bar so i used a fly surfer bar spent 5 mins adjusting the back line lengths and sure enough...it worked. I swapped a board for it and been using it ever since. I would compare the performance to a Speed 2... build quality is no where near as good as Flysurfer the zips and velcro WILL fail after 12 months but easy to replace. They work in a pretty narrow wind range and like most foils dont like gusty conditions. On a clean 20 to 25 knots these kites work as well as any other foil i have used..im old school style board offs etc....to jump high you need to send from roughly 10 o clock then yank the bar in and redirect immediately..its a different technique to inflatos....but the float is outstanding and you glide back down.....horses for courses...so nothing wrong with Pansh except build quality and tuning to your style.

Curious if you have flown a newer Flysurfer or Ozone foil?
Comparing to decade old model isn't really relevant.

Dixie777
NT, 2 posts
Friday , 15 Nov 2019 5:39PM
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BrisKites said..

Dixie777 said..
Hi i been kiting since the early days. 1998 i started on a flexi blade. Learned to kite surf on it...I have owned flysurfer Speeds for years. Loved them and know them inside out. I was given an Aurora II 12m to try...being a flysurfer snob i scoffed at it......it didnt work with the Pansh bar so i used a fly surfer bar spent 5 mins adjusting the back line lengths and sure enough...it worked. I swapped a board for it and been using it ever since. I would compare the performance to a Speed 2... build quality is no where near as good as Flysurfer the zips and velcro WILL fail after 12 months but easy to replace. They work in a pretty narrow wind range and like most foils dont like gusty conditions. On a clean 20 to 25 knots these kites work as well as any other foil i have used..im old school style board offs etc....to jump high you need to send from roughly 10 o clock then yank the bar in and redirect immediately..its a different technique to inflatos....but the float is outstanding and you glide back down.....horses for courses...so nothing wrong with Pansh except build quality and tuning to your style.


Curious if you have flown a newer Flysurfer or Ozone foil?
Comparing to decade old model isn't really relevant.


Just the closest comparison i could think of after flying them both....i mostly fly Ozone Edge and Airush Varial these days...but get the Aurora out when conditions are right.....back to my roots..

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 822 posts
Sunday , 17 Nov 2019 2:50PM
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My review of the Aurora iii 15M. Not a bad kite, for the price (< $1000 new and delivered)

&t=162s

Yeah, doesn't have the support straps or leading edge support ribs that you pay a premium in other brands, but it's well built, the bridles are not always aligned, but then again this does not have Flysurfer-type mixer. And it did fly out of the bag, with a 20cm backline extension - no big deal. It certainly was not a kite that I had to tweak at the beach losing kite time. Those were the older Aurora 1 and A15. Aurora II and III are pretty much like a Speed 2, 2.5 (silverarrow), or an Ozone 1. But hey, get out there for less and why not?
I also ordered the Genesis 2019 12m from Pansh, and it too flies very well.



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"Light wind Ram/foil Kite" started by FoS