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Newbie with no interest to ride twin tips

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Created by Pasquales 6 months ago, 14 Apr 2021
Pasquales
166 posts
14 Apr 2021 12:52PM
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Hi folks. This is my first post in this particular forum, but have posted previously in the wing section. I started wing foiling last August and found this website useful for getting the skuttle on gear. Winging has been useful for learning wind sports and how to foil. However where I live, you could say winds are on the lite side (Avg8-15 knots). During spring, it's definitely doable to wing and heaps of fun . However, summer can be a bummer as there are more 8-12 knot days.

To make a long story short, I grew tired of struggling to hold the ding in lite winds while guys on kite foils scream by. Given I weigh 90 kgs, I decided to try my hand at kite foiling for lite wind days. I picked up two 2017 North Mono kites(7 and 15m), and took 3 lessons. I've been rigging and flying during my lunch hour and getting to the point where I feel much more comfortable and in control. After the next lesson learning to body drag, I wanna start out on my smallest surfboard (5 ft-39 liters) and begin kitesurfing. At some point in the future, I'd like to switch to kitefoiling.

Is it ok to just skip twin tip boards ? I'm really just interested in kite surfing and foiling. With twin tips, foot positioning is so different from how one rides a foil board.

PrfctChaos
WA, 79 posts
14 Apr 2021 2:47PM
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Probably best skipping twinnies if you want to learn to kitefoil. Lots of twinnie riders (and sur fboard riders for that matter) really struggle to learn kitefoiling, due to putting too much weight on back foot and the foil flying out of the water. Since you can wingfoil you should be fine to just take the 7m out in 17kn or so of wind and learning to kitefoil.

Ps: later on you would likely want a 10 or 12m hyperlink v2 (they are light, low maintenance and good handling) to be really comfortable cruising around at speed in 10 knots. The higher upwind angles will be a welcome aspect.

cbulota
WA, 1341 posts
14 Apr 2021 5:49PM
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Hi Pasquales,

PrfctChaos makes a good point. However, starting to kite on a twin tip would simply makes things easier while you continue to develop your kite control and every other essential beginner skills listed in the green column here: www.kitebud.com.au/how-good-were-your-lessons/

I have taught over 40 students how to hydrofoil with a kite over the past 6 years and the ones who progressed the slowest were the ones with the poorest kite control i.e. in their first season of kitesurfing. Yes, habits you learn from riding a twin tip have to be un-learned when learning to foil, but the thing is you already know how to foil.

You don't need to spend that much time on a twin tip (depending on your skills and how often you get to go out) before moving on to a surfboard and then a hydrofoil. This is what makes the most sense anyways. You can of course ignore my advice and get straight to hydrofoiling with a kite right away, but be prepared to get into some difficult situations (difficulty relaunching the kite, tangled lines/bridles, lines getting tangled around the foil, losing the foil, etc).

Most people who get into foiling don't realize how quickly a foil can go downwind when you fall off of it. It's also the main reason why people lose their foils. Keep in mind that in kitesurfing you don't tether the board to yourself as it's dangerous.

In summary, my advice is spend a season or so on the twin tip or whatever time you need to get to the point where you can at least go upwind and do transitions in a variety of wind conditions (light, moderate, strong) and you have gained lots of experience with things like deep water relaunching (in a variety of wind conditions and kite positions), board recovery, self-rescue, etc. Then transition to the surfboard and learn to change your feet while kiting, this could take a while. Then move on to kite-foiling.

Christian

Pasquales
166 posts
15 Apr 2021 3:21AM
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Guys thanks for the feedback. I'm really chomping at the bit to learn kite foiling, and thought with decades of experience short board surfing I could take my lumps and learn on a surfboard. This discussion is useful for stepping back and thinking pros and cons. Absolutely foiling is about using the opposite foot for stability and control. When learning how to wing foil, it was a real wake up call. I'm comfortable on a foil board now (surf, wing), but would never consider going straight to kite foiling. There's a level of coordination with the kite I just don't have at the moment. Gonna be a slow and steady race, but the finish will be grand.

snalberski
WA, 795 posts
22 Apr 2021 2:01PM
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As with all things associated with kiting the overwhelming percentage of skill required is kite flying skill.
I would estimate that no less than 80% of the ability to kite foil is directly dependent on kite flying skills. Making a foil board hydrofoil is very easy if you have a steady predictable power and speed delivery... for instance being towed behind a boat. One of the most difficult parts of kite foiling is delivering power at the appropriate level, at the appropriate time.
My point is that having no kite flying skills will likely make going strait to kite foiling difficult at best. That is not to say it shouldn't or can't be done but using a tt will make the devolpment of kite usage much more efficient.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6176 posts
23 Apr 2021 11:30PM
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Yup, it's kitesurfing, not boardsurfing. Kite skills are IMHO 90% or more of the sport.

Skip the twin tip, there's nothing natural and little more helpful about it if your goal is to foil. The more floaty your surfboard, the more you can get up on it and figure out how to get the kite to pull you along. The hardest thing will be water starting on the surfboard...good practice for a foil board.

Fly the kite, practice on the land, body drag in the water. You need to be able to fly it as second nature.

What you'll find with foiling is you'll need to be able to fly the kite and separate it from loading up your feet by using your knees, and redirecting the board etc so you've got to be able to do two things at once. The more comfortable you are with the kite, the easier and safer.

But in the very beginning, foiling is not going to be a light wind option for you.

psychojoe
WA, 1294 posts
24 Apr 2021 9:03PM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..
Yup, it's kitesurfing, not boardsurfing. Kite skills are IMHO 90% or more of the sport.

Skip the twin tip, there's nothing natural and little more helpful about it if your goal is to foil. The more floaty your surfboard, the more you can get up on it and figure out how to get the kite to pull you along. The hardest thing will be water starting on the surfboard...good practice for a foil board.

Fly the kite, practice on the land, body drag in the water. You need to be able to fly it as second nature.

What you'll find with foiling is you'll need to be able to fly the kite and separate it from loading up your feet by using your knees, and redirecting the board etc so you've got to be able to do two things at once. The more comfortable you are with the kite, the easier and safer.

But in the very beginning, foiling is not going to be a light wind option for you.


You lost me at the bit where you said practice flying a kite on land. Sounds kinda dangerous for a newb.

Pasquales
166 posts
27 Apr 2021 1:18PM
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Well that's what I've mainly been focusing at the moment, getting comfortable flying the kite on land, parking it at 45 degrees, Doing controlled landings, the basic stuff. I get that doing this in water is the next step, and where the real learning begins. Just not there yet. Regarding water starts, I am fortunately well practiced at doing this behind a boat- it's how I learned foiling using a friends 4'6" board. Hopefully this skill will transfer somewhat.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6176 posts
27 Apr 2021 8:50PM
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psychojoe said..
You lost me at the bit where you said practice flying a kite on land. Sounds kinda dangerous for a newb.


If they've been "rigging and flying" during their lunch hour, before having body drag lessons, I assumed they were already flying on the land.

Where else would you learn to fly a kite without riding a board...?

Kamikuza
QLD, 6176 posts
27 Apr 2021 8:54PM
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Pasquales said..
Well that's what I've mainly been focusing at the moment, getting comfortable flying the kite on land, parking it at 45 degrees, Doing controlled landings, the basic stuff. I get that doing this in water is the next step, and where the real learning begins. Just not there yet. Regarding water starts, I am fortunately well practiced at doing this behind a boat- it's how I learned foiling using a friends 4'6" board. Hopefully this skill will transfer somewhat.


Be interesting to hear how it goes for you.

I predict you'll get up then lose power in the kite as you ride at it, so you'll have to be comfy with the kite and how to get it to pull you. I'd still put in some time on a surfboard so you get used to combining the kite and the board, before you add the Flying Axe of Doom.

Once that's down, you'll be foiling quicker due to your boat experience IMO.

psychojoe
WA, 1294 posts
28 Apr 2021 6:05AM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..

psychojoe said..
You lost me at the bit where you said practice flying a kite on land. Sounds kinda dangerous for a newb.



If they've been "rigging and flying" during their lunch hour, before having body drag lessons, I assumed they were already flying on the land.

Where else would you learn to fly a kite without riding a board...?


Waist deep water. Safe as houses. Ok still Somewhat dangerous but much safer Than a face full of sand when it goes lull backstall gust

Kamikuza
QLD, 6176 posts
28 Apr 2021 4:07PM
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psychojoe said..


Kamikuza said..



psychojoe said..
You lost me at the bit where you said practice flying a kite on land. Sounds kinda dangerous for a newb.





If they've been "rigging and flying" during their lunch hour, before having body drag lessons, I assumed they were already flying on the land.

Where else would you learn to fly a kite without riding a board...?




Waist deep water. Safe as houses. Ok still Somewhat dangerous but much safer Than a face full of sand when it goes lull backstall gust



Sure, where it's an option, and where it's actually going to be safer...

You don't any power so kite handling should can be done with the smallest kite that'll fly.

KBGhost
QLD, 161 posts
17 May 2021 11:29AM
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Hey Pasquales,

Glad to see you make the jump, I'm one of those guys who fly by and tbh I always feel sorry for the wingers I'm passing, and wonder if any of them will get ideas about kiting instead. Winging is great if you can't kite but if you can, there's very few situations where they outperform a kite. Where most of us live anyway.

My vote would be to buy a surfboard with foil tracks installed. Start riding the surfboard then find a short mast foil to learn on, only after you've mastered the surfboard. Short masts make the transition really easy.

By that time the mono 15 will be way too big, ie if you can't make enough power to foil with say an 11m then there won't be enough to keep a bigger inflatable in the sky and you'll need a lighter kite, be it Aluula or foil.

Pasquales
166 posts
17 May 2021 2:08PM
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That's a good question you pose - if wingers will realize they can kite in lesser conditions. When I asked folks on the winging forum many felt having to pay for lessons was a limitation. For those having more wind, maybe winging is all they need and they don't have the need to spend. I can understand this to some degree. April is typically the best month for wind where I live. I spent most of the past 30 days winging, and had some fun days. But June wind speeds typically drop to low double digits. This becomes kiting season out of necessity.

So as I was saying, since my last post most of my free time was winging . I did manage to fly the kite 4 times (again on dry land). It was time well spent. Got much better at flying the 15 meter, and learning kite trimming. Apparently the previous owner had the front lines set to full power, and it was a real struggle to maintain control when looping the kite. The bar lines were also tied to the last knot, so I moved them to the default. It took me a few sessions to figure things out, but eventually got things squared away.

Next session the plan is to get in the water, and start getting dragged around.

Pasquales
166 posts
6 Jul 2021 2:22PM
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Hi Folks. Due to several reasons - such as busy work schedule, me going on vacation, unfavorable winds, more tourists in town wanting lessons, - it took longer than expected to get the body drag/self rescue lesson. After a few delays, I actually watched several videos online and attempted to teach myself. Didn't go well, as I found myself slowly getting dragged downwind, unable to launch the kite due to off/on winds. Anyway, the experience taught me much needed patience. Today had the formal training and things went well. Next training, water starts.

Pasquales
166 posts
29 Jul 2021 9:47AM
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My god wind is hard to come by where I live ! Managed to snag a short session today.

Had been waiting and finally got a decent day to practice water starts with my instructor. Practiced looping the kite on the sand. Then graduated to the water.

First attempt started ok, then went south fast. Was actually able to get up on the board but unfortunately pointed too far upwind, went head over arse into the water. While underwater, lost my bearing from being pulled downwind and had to release the chicken loop and self rescue. Apparently the kite started looping after I submerged. Crazy sport you guys partake in ! A fellow kiter saw me struggling, grabbed my board, dropped it on the shore. Was so thankful.

Second/3rd attempt. I was a little shook up so held back on the kite dives. Basically didn't dive deep enough so fell backward.

Fourth - Felt like things were starting to slow down. Had a controlled pop up but my weight was shifted too back footed, and fell off the tail of the board. But immediately got the kite back into control, body dragged back to the board.

Basically my lunch hour was up so had to head back to work lickety split. Didn't get a far as I was hoping, but at least got a sense of what I need to work on.

Pasquales
166 posts
1 Aug 2021 10:16AM
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Second day trying water starts.

The good - Kept kite flying even after face planting many times. Got body dragging down pretty well. Kite dives feeling good.

More work - Front foot pressure need to work on. On my last attempt of the day, I tried to emphasize this and actually got a short ride, but didn't dive the kite fast enough on the second go. If I had done it faster, it would have been off to the races.

Feeling pretty good.



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"Newbie with no interest to ride twin tips" started by Pasquales