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CrazyFly Sickbar design Flaws make it Dangerous to use! BEWARE!

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Created by Cezar > 9 months ago, 12 Dec 2021
Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
12 Dec 2021 6:54PM
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After 2 recent accidents with this bar in Melbourne I have the good reasons for the Warning and demand the Manufacturer takes action to warn the users and buyers about the Sickbar limitations and potential excessive wear of power lines. This bar isn't suitable to use for boosting/kite looping etc.

Accident nr 1 St Kilda- 24/10/21
The Sickbar fell apart due to the Power Line breaking at height 5.5m as recorded by my Woo.
The serious injuries of 4 broken ribs in 7places in result!
First 2 weeks CF did nothing except an offer of replacement bar and request of the serial number from Andre Danz the Distributor/Retailer.
After I publicised the issue on kiteforum.com asking CF to disclose the reasons for such serious failure, their only response was:

" Since the Power Line is clearly missing on after accident photos the examination of the faulty bar is not required
It would sound like a joke if it wasn't so serious, as of today 7 weeks passed and CF continue the cover-up in regard to my new Sickbar 2021 that fell apart after ONLY approximately 15hrs of use!

Accident nr 2 in Altona 29/11/21

The near new Sickbar fell apart after approximately 20 easy sessions (as reported by Owner on kiteforum.com) due to the Power Line breaking.

The failure happened at 2m height the experienced kiter got into risky situation but with a bit of luck got out without any injury to himself and the gear, except the bar that's!

He bought it directly from CF Australian e-shop. In this case their approach somewhat different . 7/12/21 they stated and I quote:

"There were few bars from luckily only one and only batch sent out that were having issue with broken PU on Sickbar. I have found that fact out just recently." And then :

"I' m going to ask you to send me a serial number of the bar please"

This statement is dubious for couple of reasons, how on earth they knew his bar was from one and only one batch of faulty bars!?

They didn't even know the serial number yet, besides how can they ask a customer who bought the bar in March for a number! Its CF to know what they sold. And of course they didn't say what actually failed since PU tube in my bar and this one were not broken at all.

Since the CF refused any investigation in case of my failed bar I conducted my own and arrived to the very troubling conclusion:

1. CF used grossly undersized single power line in both bars, when industry standard is at least 6mm and more they cut the corners with 3mm line puttting the life of the user in grave danger ??

2. The 3 mm PL and 2mm Flag out line are housed in the same PU tube rubbing each other as they work!

PU tube is 10mm in size BUT the borehole into it is ONLY approx. 5mm!! ??

The metal surround of this hole causes instant abrasion when a bar is in use!

When PL is completely cooked depends how you use your bar in my case it took only 15hrs since I work my bar hard kite looping and boosting. The other bar survived a bit longer due to light use.

Both bars failed for the same reason broken PL in exactly the same place, that's on entry to the PU tube!

CF must know full well about the above bar defects so to manufacture and sell such gear without clear warnings about

its limitations constitutes Criminal Negligence in my opinion.

Their cover-up and conduct after my accident does support such opinion.

In addition they abruptly fired their long time Australian Retailer Andre Danz on absurd and false accusation of illegal conduct and I quote CF from 1/12/22:

Today we received evidence that our now ex-retailer Andre @Kite Oz is asking customers to damage their CrazyFly bars and send in photos.
Interestingly, for sure out of pure coincidence, user dshunter65 (also from Melbourne like Cezary) joins this forum on 29.11 and posts a broken powerline.

The CF clearly implied the second Sickbar failure is the result of such illegal evidence fabrication, I hope CF has solid evidence to make such serious accusations since and I quote:

"No matter how minor the fabricated evidence is, presenting or preparing false evidence is an automatic felony. Escaping prison time will be almost near to impossible if you are found guilty."


In addition to the above most serious Sickbar faults there is a number of others making this bar one of the worst if not the worst on the market namely:

1. Both lines in the same tube.

2. Power line not through the CL assembly

3. The mini fifth flag out line in 4line bar,

absolutely obsolete design these days.

All above should be also considered in light of the assurances CF customers received in 2018 from Juraj Buckovsky who stated:


"On the bar, nothing can break as this puts riders at high risk. All parts of the bar are very carefully designed to be extremely strong and durable ..."


Most of this bar flaws are due to the cost cutting and making the same bar for the last 6 years ! Incredible "achievement" by any standards.

The reason for this is obvious and I quote again Juraj Buckovsky:



"..Plus, it cannot cost too much, because it is just a bar, right? "


That's right it's just a bar for you CF it must be cheap (and it's cheap) to sell as many as possible disregarding the safety of the users in the process!

In conclusion I quote what one of the biggest and trusted Australian kitesurfing gear Retailer said about CF Sickbar when told about my accident:

"we used to sell them but stopped because the bars are just dangerous."


The photos attached are:

1. The bar that failed in Altona

2. The photo of my failed bar with recovered broken PL showing the break occurred at the borehole!

3. The 2 photos of the borehole in PU tube, one with 5mm Allen key hardly into the opening!

4. The broken PL together with new clam cleat 5mm depower line for comparison.

5. My broken PL - at the bottom of the splice!















Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
13 Dec 2021 6:34AM
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After 2 recent accidents with this bar in Melbourne I have the good reasons for the Warning and demand the Manufacturer takes action to warn the users and buyers about the Sickbar limitations and potential excessive wear of Power Line (chicken loop line) which is unacceptably UNDERSIZED!
This bar isn't suitable to use for boosting/kite looping etc.I believe even kooks should not use it!
Accident nr 1 St Kilda- 24/10/21
The Sickbar fell apart due to the Power Line breaking at height 5.5m as recorded by my Woo.
The serious injuries of 4 broken ribs in 7places in result!
First 2 weeks CF did nothing except an offer of replacement bar and request of the serial number from Andre Danz the Distributor/Retailer.
After I publicised the issue on kiteforum.com asking CF to disclose the reasons for such serious failure, their only response was:
" Since the Power Line is clearly missing on after accident photos the examination of the faulty bar is not required
It would sound like a joke if it wasn't so serious, as of today 7 weeks passed and CF continue the cover-up in regard to my new Sickbar 2021 that fell apart after ONLY approximately 15hrs of use!
Accident nr 2 in Altona 29/11/21
The near new Sickbar fell apart after approximately 20 easy sessions (as reported by Owner on kiteforum.com) due to the Power Line breaking.
The failure happened at 2m height the experienced kiter got into risky situation but with a bit of luck got out without any injury to himself and the gear, except the bar that's!
He bought it directly from CF Australian e-shop. In this case their approach somewhat different . 7/12/21 they stated and I quote:
"There were few bars from luckily only one and only batch sent out that were having issue with broken PU on Sickbar. I have found that fact out just recently." And then :
"I' m going to ask you to send me a serial number of the bar please"
This statement is dubious for couple of reasons, how on earth they knew his bar was from one and only one batch of faulty bars!?
They didn't even know the serial number yet, besides how can they ask a customer who bought the bar in March for a number! Its CF to know what they sold. And of course they didn't say what actually failed since PU tube in my bar and this one were not broken at all.

Since the CF refused any investigation in case of my failed bar I conducted my own and arrived to the very troubling conclusion:

1. CF used grossly undersized single 3mm power line in both bars, when industry standard is at least 6mm and more they cut the corners and compromised safety with 3mm line puttting the life of the user in grave danger
The problem is that when we load the kite up and pull the bar in, the inside of the bar now adds an angular force to the line!! The designer MUST over- engineer the Power Line for that reason!

2. The 3 mm PL and 2mm Flag out line are housed in the same PU tube size10mm BUT the borehole into it is ONLY approx. 5mm!!
The metal surround of this hole causes instant abrasion when a bar is in use!
When PL is completely cooked depends how you use your bar in my case it took only 15hrs since I work my bar hard kite looping and boosting. The other bar survived a bit longer due to light use.
Both bars failed for the same reason broken PL in exactly the same place, that's on entry to the PU tube!
CF must know full well about the above bar defects and limitations so to manufacture and sell such gear without clear warnings about
its limitations constitutes Criminal Negligence in my opinion.
Their cover-up and conduct after my accident does support such opinion.
In addition they abruptly fired their long time Australian Retailer Andre Danz on absurd and false accusation of illegal conduct and I quote CF from 1/12/22:
"Today we received evidence that our now ex-retailer Andre @Kite Oz is asking customers to damage their CrazyFly bars and send in photos".
Interestingly, for sure out of pure coincidence, user dshunter65 (also from Melbourne like Cezary) joins this forum on 29.11 and posts a broken power-line"

The CF clearly implied the second Sickbar failure/the photo nr 1 is the result of such illegal evidence fabrication what has serious legal consequences!! I quote:

"No matter how minor the fabricated evidence is, presenting or preparing false evidence is an automatic felony. "
Note that CF didn't produce any "evidence " of this crime and they will never do it !

In addition to the above most serious Sickbar Defects there is a number of other Flaws making this bar one of the worst if not the worst on the market namely:
1. Both lines running loosely in the same tube rubbing against each other, sand getting in.
2. Power line not through the CL assembly
3. The mini fifth flag out line in 4line bar,
absolutely obsolete design these days.

All above should be also considered in light of the assurances CF customers received in 2018 from Juraj Buckovsky who claims the bar is "State of the Art" and stated for iksurfmag:

"On the bar, nothing can break as this puts riders at high risk. All parts of the bar are very carefully designed to be extremely strong and durable ..."

Most of this bar flaws are due to the cost cutting and making the same bar for the last 6 years ! Incredible "achievement" by any standards!
In conclusion I quote what one of the biggest and trusted Australian kitesurfing gear Retailer said about CF Sickbar when told about my accident:

"we used to sell them but stopped because the bars are just dangerous."

The photos attached are:
1. The bar that failed in Altona
2. The photo of my failed bar with recovered broken PL showing the break occurred at the borehole! Just like the line in Altona bar
3. The 2 photos of the borehole in PU tube, one with 5mm Allen key hardly into the opening!
4. The broken PL together with new clam cleat 5mm depower line for comparison.
5. My broken 3mm PL - at the bottom of the splice!

snalberski
WA, 857 posts
28 Dec 2021 5:07PM
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Thanks for all the effort you have put into making readers aware of this sub standard and dangerous product. I have over the years had various issues with lack lustre design and safety features of different bars from different manufacturers, and I have always voiced my concerns.
I have just recently purchased the latest Ikon Convert V4 bar which I know personally has been designed meticulously from the ground up with safety being at the very core (literally from the central safety line channel diameter). The overall function and design leaves nothing to be desired.
The lines and materials the best available It's well worth a look if your in the market for a new bar.

Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
29 Dec 2021 2:21PM
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Yes I'm doing this cos after all I'm the one the CrazyF did try to" kill "with their Almighty Sickbar! I'm sorry to be so blunt some people might be offended (not CF though )
but imho if someone does manufacture and sell you the kitesurfing bar without any warnings about its severe limitations due to the 3mm string used as the power line such Manufacturer commits an offense of putting your life at risk!
It's that simple and this happened exactly in my case, the fact I survived relatively well I only owned to the lucky coincidence the "State of the Art" Sickbar fell apart at "only" 5.5m not my usual boosting height 10-12m.
The only warnings about this 3mm string I was able to find only on fix my kite site.
They didn't of course specify the size of it since then the secret of the Crazywould be revealed and who would buy a bar with 3mm PL!? As the guy on kiteforum.com rightly said:

"No one in their right mind will ride an unprotected 3mm line as a depower cord for boosting. Running it through a big loose tube is even worse compared to an unprotected rope in my eyes!"

I won't even mention the "small" flaws of the "Almighty" like feeding 3mm fully loaded string when in use together with 2mm flag out line into big 10mm PU tube through the borehole the size of......5.5 mm! Yes its not the misprint 5.5 mm !!
It would all be just very funny if not so serious and dangerous

kpracing
NSW, 11 posts
12 Jan 2022 11:54PM
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I contacted crazyfly about the safety / flag out line not sliding freely through the pvc tube on my sick bar. Sometimes it works slowly and other times is very tight. Crazyfly basically blew me off. I won't use it now. Too risky.

CFofficial
3 posts
20 Jan 2022 4:07PM
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Dear Cezary,

As you know, we also posted a couple comments in your topics on Kiteforum.com which are still fully accessible with all posts (links below). We understand your frustration, but your false accusation have reached a limit. Therefore, we would like to state a few facts:

The problems in your case started after you inflated a brand new kite from us and were not happy with the struts. The bladders looked twisted. We see the kite is now in good condition and up for sale. When we emailed you that all this kite needs is a professional kite repairer to look at and let us know if only the struts needed a refit, we received an email from you full of false accusations that the kite is stitched wrong, strut material too thin (the main news on our 2022 kites) different placement of the strut to LE etc. If anyone wishes, we will post full email from Cezary. Was posted on Kiteforum.com and still accessible. Looks like the kite needed only a strut re-fit after all. If the kite repairer would state that stitching was wrong, we would take the kite back and replace it.

Later on, you experienced a power line failure. At this time, we have been falsely accused on not fitting the power line into your bar. We would like to state that all power lines are loaded three times with 300 kgs after they are stitched. At the end of the bar assembly, each bar is also loaded with 150 kgs (would fail without a power line fitted inside) and safety is triggered three times. It is not possible for a bar to leave our door without a power line. And a bar without a power line would break during the first kite launch.

You also falsely accuse us that the power line is not safe due to its diameter. The power line is a 600 kg breaking strength line. You can check with the manufacturer Liros in Germany. If you could please explain to us all, how does line diameter determine line strength, we would appreciate it. Please note, there are other major kite brands using the same power line size and even thinner power lines. Still, we rely on our own testing and knowledge.

You are also falsely claiming two same cases of power line breakages (yours and in Altona) while they are both completely different. Your power line broke in the stitching while the one in Altona broke 6 cm above the stitching, which is 9 cm above the borehole you falsely claim causes abrasion and wear. The bar from Altona is in our office and power line with the line supplier for further investigation.

You are correct on one point, the safety line and power line are inside the same PU tube. If there are bars with non PU covered lines and you can run the bar on them up and down thousands of cycles with sand and hand pressure and these line last for a long time, how can a safety line that only moves when the safety is triggered cause a power line to break? If you could explain this phenomenon, would be great. The fact that these lines are inside the same PU tube poses no danger and no wear to the power line at all.

You also falsely present on your photos where the power line is connected on the bar.

You have falsely accused us that our production is not under cameras. Well, it is all under cameras for multiple reasons and we see it live and can back trace to any point. We attach a photo for you, where you can see that kite quality control and inserting bladders and inflating the kite is a two-person job. They cross check each other and enter all kite data to a tablet. Sorry Cezary, but your kite did not leave our door with twisted bladders. Even after all false accusations and swearwords towards us, you are welcome to come to our factory and check how we manufacture things.

We understand from your emails and posts that you like to bend information and accuse everyone of everything. But, please note that presenting completely false information about a company in public online places is also an offense and laws apply. Our lawyers have been storing all your communication, private and public and you will hear from them soon. You have also insulted one of our colleagues across forums and have falsely quoted his interview, which you took out of context. The part you were quoting about cheap bars was a rhetoric question implicating what customers say about all bars in general. In no way did the interviewee implicate that we manufacture cheap bars.

Your topic on Kiteforum.com was closed because you assaulted a fellow member of the kiteforum with swearwords. It was not closed because the admin does what we say. It does not work like that. Yes, we contacted the admin and asked what the language policy is, as you insulted a specific member of our team. If anyone wishes, we will share the email sent to Kiteforum admin. Here is a link to Kiteforum.com topics which are still accessible and will never be removed:
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2411625&hilit=crazyfly
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2411667&hilit=crazyfly

This bar system is on the market since 2015 with minor modifications, but same power line and safety system principal (single front line flag out). We have sold thousands of these over the years and know the system front and back. If the bar had a design flaw as you indicate, do you really believe it would be possible for a brand to exist and grow with such a bar? The forums would be full of such posts as yours many years before. Probably your posts would be joined by hundreds of others with the same experience.

We understand that you will never understand the fact that each line is made from a natural material and manufactured with human input from the line supplier. Plus, each line is stitched by hand (this stitch is impossible to automate with machines only) so each line is unique and can have a hidden fault.

If we tell you today that your line failed because of faulty stitching, you probably will not accept it and will continue to claim a design flaw.

Your accusation that we are trying to cover things up is also false. We do not mind this being public at all. We have nothing to hide and know how we design and manufacture things.

We all feel sorry about your bar incident but will not stand false accusations.

CrazyFly Kiteboarding.

Cezar
VIC, 270 posts
20 Jan 2022 9:47PM
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Select to expand quote




kpracing said..
I contacted crazyfly about the safety / flag out line not sliding freely through the pvc tube on my sick bar. Sometimes it works slowly and other times is very tight. Crazyfly basically blew me off. I won't use it now. Too risky.







The fact CF blew you off is of no surprise to me since they simply had no answer to your legit complaint!
The red line is of secondary importance here IMO but never or less can be annoying and should not be an issue in 1st place if the bar was built correctly.
The 2mm red line doesn't slide freely cos together with the 3mm power line enters 10mm PU tube trough the borehole hardly bigger than 5mm!!
Its unthinkable but this is the case with CF Sickbar or at least the one that fell apart mid air in my case.
If any sand or dirt gets into the PU tube it does prevent the red line that is unloaded from sliding freely as you pointed out!
It's annoying but does not cos much danger in rare circumstances when the red line becomes loaded it might snap and you can loose your kite but NOT your LIFE!
Totaly different matter with fully loaded power line on which you literally put your life!
You don't feel much obstruction when working the bar due to high tension you just frye this line until it snapps!
.The sand or no sand the abrasion at the borehole is instant, the harder you work the bar the abrasion is greater and the bar fails quicker .
My line lasted only about 15hrs and I was very lucky not to sustain permanent injury not to mention loosing the life curtesy of CF artists who did hide single 3mm "power line" inside PU tube !

In conclusion I quote again the opinion about CF Sickbar of one of the biggest and trusted retailers in OZ!

"Yes we used to sell them but stopped because the bars are just dangerous."

I couldn't agree more with this !!













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"CrazyFly Sickbar design Flaws make it Dangerous to use! BEWARE!" started by Cezar