To adapt the Gong Allvator to a Moses or Axis mast you buy the Hellavator fuselage that's made to use Allvator wings. (Go to Gong site and look it up.) that has a square insert that you can have Stringfellow make an insert adapter. There's a thread that shows these over on the Standup Zone too if you search. Really cool.
Having just bought an Allvator alu fuse to do the mod, I wanted to be sure I got the right part. It "looks" like Dspace used the standard fuse as a starting point for the Axis 19mm mod (maybe he'll chime in to verify). Maybe the Hellvator's square slot is a better starting point for the Moses mast mod?
Anyway here is the thread from standup zone;
www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,35177.msg415010.html#msg415010
Regardless, I can likely make either work. Happy to note that the front wing fit on this alu fuse is super tight, a little better than my 100cm carbon where it's really relying on the screws for stiffness.
Super nice job on the stab in the previous pic, love the wooden end cap!
Yeah, I'm sure you can make either work. But as your machinist will probably tell you, it's better to mess up a small piece of aluminum (the insert) than a bigger one (the fuselage.) also, with the insert you can cut a clean piece of stock instead of cleaning up or adapting a mast into an existing hole. But your guy (or girl) will sort that I'm sure.
Let us know if you find a good machinist! I def want an Axis adapter at some point.
I'll be hacking at it myself, even with my basic skills this is a pretty easy cleanup to an existing hole in soft aluminum. This tiny bench mill has been one of the most useful tools in my garage. Where to line up the holes will take some thought. Prefer to keep the front of the mast in the same spot.
littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3990&category=1387807683
Select to expand quoteTaak said..
Hi all,
I have been lurking on here for quite a while and learned a lot. As information is scarce and things develop quickly I thought I would share the insights I gained on my Gong foil gear here. Hope it helps someone.
Rider: 80kgs. Winging for a year now in both waves and flat water. Many wing downwinders.
Location: Netherlands, Northsea and the bigger lakes
Gong foils I own/owned:
Rise XL
Curve L, XL
Veloce M, L, XL
Surf stab 45 cm
Veloce stab 43 cm
Kite stab 40 cm
Rise XL: about this foil I'm quite opinionated in a bad way. I don't think it has any advantages over the curve XL for people around 80kgs and lower. It just has way too much drag and lift. Which makes pumping onto the foil more difficult as it is hard to start going forward. When pumping it is hard to get your weight back above your front foot as it has too much lift. I have taught a couple of friends to wing and all preferred the Curve XL and the Veloce XL for learning. (Sold)
Curve XL: great first foil to start winging and once you progress it remains the foil with the best low-end. You can pump it onto the foil aggressive without stalling which is a big difference to the Veloce range where you need more speed. The top speed is ok but a bit too slow to keep up with the swell on the north sea. Yet perfect for easy downwinders on the bigger lakes here in the Netherlands. (Keeping it for extreme low-end and downwind with paddle)
Curve: L: great foil with, as expected, similar characteristics as the XL. I found pumping quite difficult on this foil compared to the XL and also the Veloce L and XL. I didn't own it for long as I also had the Veloce XL at the time and they overlap completely with the Veloce winning on low-end, speed and pumping. (Sold)
Veloce XL: my all-round favorite as it has a good low-end but also great speed/low drag. I found progressing with tacks a lot easier than on the Curve because you keep your speed way longer (lower drag). If you only wing on flat water I don't think there is much of a reason to go smaller in the Veloce line. Even though the Curve has a better low-end for pumping onto the foil the Veloce's low-end is way better once you are up. Because of the low drag you can go through lulls way easier as you don't lose your speed so quickly. So practically I nearly never use the Curve XL anymore as long as there are some gusts of 13 knots to get up. In bigger waves you do feel it wants to pop you out at some point. Hence, why I bought the L/M. The Veloce XL is still my favorite for wing downwinds on the lakes here. I often read that the Veloce line is harder to turn than the Curve line. Yet, I found the opposite and prefer the Veloce for turning. (Keeping it for wing and downwind paddle in more wind)
Veloce L: same characteristics as the XL. Pumps really nice and similar to the XL. Yet a lot nicer in bigger waves and downwind on the sea. Easier to control/turn/keep in the water at high speeds. Low-end for me with a 4m wing is 16knots or so. Currently this is the foil that I use the most. I have used it with the 43 Veloce stab, but it is better balanced when combined with the kite stab 40. (Keeping it, main weapon in waves and bigger wing downwind days).
Veloce M: I don't need this, but still I still bought it ;) It's fast, very fast. I do need >22knots to get going with 3m wing. Which is directly a complication as you need to be certain that it is really windy to pick this foil or keep a bigger wing in the air. Combined with the Veloce 43 stab it was not behaving well (a lot of front foot pressure). Yet with the kite stab 40 it is a lot better. I can imagine that it will be my go to foil for the really big days on the north sea (30+ knots and big swell). But so far the L suits this purpose for me as well so it is not a 'must'. (keeping it to learn/progress more).
My opinion on the stabs (@ 80kgs):
Surf stab 45 cm: balances out with the Rise XL and works ok with the Curve XL.
Veloce 43 cm: Balances out with the Curve XL and works well with the Veloce XL/L.
Kite stab 40cm: Balances out with the Veloce L and works with Veloce M (didn't try on the XL yet).
I've also gone through quite some Gong wings (the one in the air), so will write up my views on that as well.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the stabs and balance. I've got the Veloce L,XL, and XXL and the 43 and 47 stabs and have found that the suggested matching of L to 43, and XL/XXL to the 47 are all well balanced for winging. I have tried the 43 with the XL and although it loosened it up, it didn't outweigh the negative balance issue, which was mainly going nose down and losing ride height when getting hit by a gust and accelerating hard. I didn't think the XL needed loosening up especially as it's already pretty manoeuvrable but was interested to try as a friend who is also heavier than me matches the XL with the 43.
I'm lighter than you at 65kg which might be the significant difference. I mainly ride the L as long as I'm well powered up, and I only got the XXL a few weeks ago for very light winds, and although the XL is a great allrounder, it might just sit in the middle too much now... I've yet to work that out. It does have to be very flat to be comfortable on the XXL otherwise I get bounced around too much in the chop - that happens on the XL too (but less) which is why I go to the L as soon as I can.
Overall, I've been very impressed with the Veloce line. I was expecting them to be much more intimidating, but no. Their stall speed is fine (you can't hesitate tacking the L though!), all have great manoeuvrability and the low drag is fantastic when the wind is light and getting through tacks / transitions. The speed is an added extra which you don't need to use - they're fast but not frantic.
Particular highlights/points:
- the L is so controlled when is gets windy and choppy it gives you so much confidence. Can stall easily on take off if you're too heavy footed with your pumping.
- XL is the great allrounder
- XXL is light wind magic
I agree that they do need more speed to get foiling, so you'll get most fun out of them once you're gybing competently, and don't have to start again all the time.
Great info here.
Thatspec, then yeah, you don't wanna be chewing a big hole with a small mill. That's pretty cool you're doing it yourself. My hat is off.
FYI, a new mid-length (85cm) full carbon mast + fuz + plate is out.
Orderable now for a delivery early February.
How do people rate the gong carbon masts compared to an Axis aluminium of same size?
The 19mm Axis is widely known as the stiffest mast around. I've not heard much about the Gong carbon. Curious to hear more.
One update, as I've gotten better at prone surfing and foiling in general, I can ride the Rise XL in waist high waves and keep it down both prone and SUP. As a beginner winger the early lift is nice and to be honest when starting out, some drag to keep you slow worked nice for me. I'm ready for less drag but it is a favorite among my buddies who are learning and it served me well starting out.
Hi I'm new here, but have some experience with the gong material, good to share my thoughts on them. Only have prone foiled Gong, Unifoil (hyper 190), Levitaz (shaka M and L) and Woodie cookie (high aspect and surf wings, local brand), hope to add Gofoil (GL) and F-one (Phantom) in the upcoming months.
Some background info, coming from kitesurfing and surfing, learned to kite foil on a race foil, now prone foiling for 1,5 years. I'm in the late 20's and around 95 kg, surfing only beach breaks in the Netherlands, with weak waves 4~7s periods, can connect multiple waves, still studying so can surf every day.
My experience on the gong gear:
Rise: Started 1,5 years ago with the XXL rise, looking back it was to big to surf foil in anything more then knee high waves, but good for dock starts, used this wing in combination with the 45surf stab and alu 65cm mast.
Curve: Then progressed to the curve XL & L, both really fun wings, learned to connect waves on those foils, but in bigger waves, the higher speed and water turbulences caused mast flex, used these wings in combination with the 40surf stab and 65cm alu mast. Really liked the low-end speed surf ability of these wings.
Veloce: Currently I'm using the XL and L veloce and M curve, with the 40kite stab and 70carbon / 80alu mast. The XL veloce is my most used wing, has the same speed range as the XL & L curve/pro combined, pumps good, can connect multiple waves, turns ok. The L veloce is fast, I have not found it's upper limit yet, turns good, pumps ok if you have enough speed. The curve M is a carving machine, only surf it when the waves are bigger and I don't want to pump.
Mast: With these wings I don't mind the mast flex on both the 80 alu as 70 carbon mast, I think this is due to the low volume of the wings 1,35L XL veloce 1,10L M curve and 0,95L L veloce. Stiffness wise the carbon mast is not much stiffer the alu mast, but can feel the flex in the pumps. The new carbon 70cm mast is arriving early march, will give a update then, expect it to be a big improvement, especially at my weight.
Stabs: 45surf, good for learning. The 40kite has the same area as the 40surf, but the profile is thinner and under a more neutral angle, resulting in less drag and more speed, makes pumping a lot easier, turns are about the same.
Hi,
I have been using a gong rise xl for a few months and i recently changed to a veloce xl, I am 70 kg. I like a lot the more speed fo the veloce but the problem is that it gives me even more lift than the rise, I am very high always. I tried moving my straps forward at the first hole and it got better but still a problem, I also have the mast position near the end( i have space to put it a little further back). The only thing that work to got it down it was placing my front foot in front of the strap. I only got at the moment a 45 surf stab so I dont Know if I change this stab the problem will be solved or maybe is the board 105L 6,3. I find that my only solution at the moment is going to be to take the straps so i can put my feet in different places. Does this happened to you? Maybe I just need to ride more the veloce.
I update. The veloce is a great foil, everything is faster now. I know now what is downwinding. My average speed has increase 4 km and my top speed nearly 3. Very happy
A rider has compiled all the specs of the Gong foil wings in one spreadsheet, it can be useful:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ors1iYR9iKZzSp9idxbwIuAbzzpoAiPRtCarLa8qHhQ/
The "surface ressentie" (equivalent surface) is the "lift equivalence" a subjective number given by the designed that should allow to compare the lift between different foils: the surface corrected by the "lift factor" of the foil shape.
Hi Gang. Been surf foiling for about four months now and getting some nice glides on a go foil GL 180. I am 86K, lifetime surfer, wave sail kiter, some foil kiting and was a windsurf wave sailor. Getting jacked out of the water with any speed or wave size on the GL 180 at my weight. Just starting to learn to pump. Was wondering if the L or XL veloce would be the answer with the 70 cm carbon mast for prone foiling and winging in the future. One of our local waves has a shallow rocky bottom even a problem with high tide many days so the shorter mast seemed prudent. The website says the L veloce is for those under 85 K. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Select to expand quotemonkeyair said..
Hi Gang. Been surf foiling for about four months now and getting some nice glides on a go foil GL 180. I am 86K, lifetime surfer, wave sail kiter, some foil kiting and was a windsurf wave sailor. Getting jacked out of the water with any speed or wave size on the GL 180 at my weight. Just starting to learn to pump. Was wondering if the L or XL veloce would be the answer with the 70 cm carbon mast for prone foiling and winging in the future. One of our local waves has a shallow rocky bottom even a problem with high tide many days so the shorter mast seemed prudent. The website says the L veloce is for those under 85 K. Any thoughts? Thanks.
The carbon 70cm is great for prone and kite, I don't wing but it's good for prone pumping and it's smooth through kite gybes.
If you want a more surf feel (cutbacks and S's) the Curve wings are better. At 88kg, prone I use a Curve LT with 43 Stab for over waist high (up to 1.5 X overhead) and for knee to waist high days a fluid xxls - the fluid is fast but not the same surf / carving feeling. For kite I use a curve MT and kite stab, the kite stab is also fun (fast) proning with the other wings, but it's hard to keep the foil down!
Hope that helps.
Select to expand quotemonkeyair said..
Thanks a bunch for the helpful info kite2surf. Have you tried the veloce?
Nope - after watching a couple of the Gong vids from the shaper, and sending Gong a couple of queries by email, they don't fit for me - I'm looking for turning grovelling surf into long carving rides (with the odd whitewash floater) - Veloce is more a straight line "slide turn", high speed" wing.
I've only had the Fluid for a few weeks and it is surprisingly fast for such a big wing, it's also easy to pump for 2 for 1's, it does require keeping your speed as you exit off the back though.
The Curve's are super stable and responsive when turning, compared to the Armstrong and Naish foils I've tried.
Gotcha. Great info. Most guys around at local spot have higher aspect looking than curve. The lifts, etc. look like the veloce. So if getting just one cure and mast. Now going with the shorter alum 26 cm mast for our shallow spot and at 86K/190 lb without gear, small surf and larger... Yeah I know. LOL and want to be able to pump the thing. Would you go for the LT Curve or the next size up?
Select to expand quotemonkeyair said..
Gotcha. Great info. Most guys around at local spot have higher aspect looking than curve. The lifts, etc. look like the veloce. So if getting just one cure and mast. Now going with the shorter alum 26 cm mast for our shallow spot and at 86K/190 lb without gear, small surf and larger... Yeah I know. LOL and want to be able to pump the thing. Would you go for the LT Curve or the next size up?
I think you'll be happy on the curve LT, it's my prone choice 90% of the time. As they're cheap (and shippings expensive) get two stabs - a curve and either a fluid or Veloce, both 43cm or even a Fast (kite). I can easily pump 2 for 1s on the LT (after a bit of practice!), so you should have no issues there. The flatter / slimmer stabs allow for a faster ride so should make you happy on the wingding or smaller waves prone.
From the Gong forum, Patrice is not riding anything larger than the Curve LT and he's closer to 100kg!
