Forums > Wing Foiling General

New Duotone Echo Wing

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Created by dejavu > 9 months ago, 5 May 2020
bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
19 Jul 2020 9:23PM
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Got out on a 7m echo today and it is a really nice wing.

Conditions were lake wash, 8 to 16 knots. Went out on a Naish 110 board, AXIS 1020/460HA. Weigh 105kg.

Not sure what the wind was blowing when I got onto the foil, but it was low. The wing has no flex and you get a good shape because of the retractable boom, so pumping delivers big power. As you pull the wing in, it feels like it pulls forwards giving you some nice board speed.

It is a big wing and you will drag the tip while pumping, but it releases quite easily and I did not once drag it under the board. At speed up on the foil, each time dragged the wing badly, I flipped it over.

I had some quite low wind once up on the foil, and it is pretty easy to stay up with board pumping and wing pumping.

Tacks and gybes are so much easier when you are not searching for a handle. Plus one for a boom.

It rates.

20 Jul 2020 12:26PM
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Had my new 7m Echo out yesterday 8 - 13 knots (not quite whitecapping) for the first time. Really impressed with it, super solid overall, had heaps of power as soon as I was up and going.

You really feel the rigidity, especially when pumping. Had a 6m full inflatable out at the same time and the Echo was a lot more powerful (felt more than the 1m difference) and very efficient.

Control on the boom is great. Can fly one handed once you're up and cruising pretty easy.

I didn't find it caught the water too much, no more than my other wings (I'm about 5'10"). Could probably go an 8m I rekon

Did a little video on the first time setup:



Definitely want to keep an eye on that LE when setting up the first time, on the 7m it's huge! This one had a slight twist in it, pumped up a couple of time since though and no troubles.

Also had to extend the rope a little as it was a super tight squeeze. Put it on the bottom (canopy side) first time, you can see it in the video if you look close, but I actually shifted the extension to the top side attachment (when pumping) and it seemed to sit better like this. Might end up needing to remove it if the rope stretches a bit but it just seemed too tight out of the bag.

DWF
565 posts
21 Jul 2020 7:19AM
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Echo 5m

AA
NSW, 2159 posts
21 Jul 2020 9:00PM
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Took the 7m piece of monster cloth out for a spin today. Super impressed. My go-to light wind Wing has been the new Naish 6m. The 7m Echo felt waaay more powerful. Def a handful as the wing span is about a meter wider than the Naish 6m, but well worth it considering the extra wind range. Sam Parker styling as always in 6-8 knots

Dspace
VIC, 284 posts
22 Jul 2020 3:39PM
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AA said..
Took the 7m piece of monster cloth out for a spin today. Super impressed. My go-to light wind Wing has been the new Naish 6m. The 7m Echo felt waaay more powerful. Def a handful as the wing span is about a meter wider than the Naish 6m, but well worth it considering the extra wind range. Sam Parker styling as always in 6-8 knots


That thing just looks huge! But understandable for bigger riders or if light winds dominate your location. I limited myself to the 6m Echo as my light wind wing (I'm ~77kg). Much prefer to be on the 5 and 4m sizes. My Echo's tack nicely in both directions, though they always seem to need a helping hand in a heel to toeside tack (probably my poor technique). Way less "flop-back-into-your-face" when backwinded on a 360. The blue/grey is my 4m and yellow/blue is my 5m

Piros
QLD, 6879 posts
22 Jul 2020 4:38PM
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That's very smooth Dspace and nice boat BTW and that 7m AA looks so good .

DWF
565 posts
31 Jul 2020 1:30AM
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dejavu
807 posts
31 Jul 2020 10:00PM
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DWF -- great video. Very helpful. Keep them coming!

Paddlezz
101 posts
31 Jul 2020 10:22PM
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Dspace said..



AA said..
Took the 7m piece of monster cloth out for a spin today. Super impressed. My go-to light wind Wing has been the new Naish 6m. The 7m Echo felt waaay more powerful. Def a handful as the wing span is about a meter wider than the Naish 6m, but well worth it considering the extra wind range. Sam Parker styling as always in 6-8 knots





That thing just looks huge! But understandable for bigger riders or if light winds dominate your location. I limited myself to the 6m Echo as my light wind wing (I'm ~77kg). Much prefer to be on the 5 and 4m sizes. My Echo's tack nicely in both directions, though they always seem to need a helping hand in a heel to toeside tack (probably my poor technique). Way less "flop-back-into-your-face" when backwinded on a 360. The blue/grey is my 4m and yellow/blue is my 5m





Dspace, Gong XL pro a clickbait? See I a red Axis mast on the video?

Dspace
VIC, 284 posts
5 Aug 2020 6:01PM
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Paddlezz said..

Dspace said..




AA said..
Took the 7m piece of monster cloth out for a spin today. Super impressed. My go-to light wind Wing has been the new Naish 6m. The 7m Echo felt waaay more powerful. Def a handful as the wing span is about a meter wider than the Naish 6m, but well worth it considering the extra wind range. Sam Parker styling as always in 6-8 knots






That thing just looks huge! But understandable for bigger riders or if light winds dominate your location. I limited myself to the 6m Echo as my light wind wing (I'm ~77kg). Much prefer to be on the 5 and 4m sizes. My Echo's tack nicely in both directions, though they always seem to need a helping hand in a heel to toeside tack (probably my poor technique). Way less "flop-back-into-your-face" when backwinded on a 360. The blue/grey is my 4m and yellow/blue is my 5m






Dspace, Gong XL pro a clickbait? See I a red Axis mast on the video?


Sorry, I missed this. No clickbait. I modified my Gong fuselage to work with the 19mm Axis masts. Way stiffer than those spongy Gong Al masts. Not quite ready to buy the Gong mono block carbon masts yet. Actually I've recently upgraded from my XL Pro to a Veloce XL as shown in the attached pic. It's a great wing but that's another topic


Paddlezz
101 posts
5 Aug 2020 7:06PM
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Nice work, do you have a CNC machinery in your garage?
There is room for business. Can you sell me some Doodads :
Axis mast to Gong fuse and Axis mast to Moses fuse?

Dspace
VIC, 284 posts
7 Aug 2020 7:05AM
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Paddlezz said..
Nice work, do you have a CNC machinery in your garage?
There is room for business. Can you sell me some Doodads :
Axis mast to Gong fuse and Axis mast to Moses fuse?


Sorry Paddlezz, no soft metal CNC machine in my shop (though I'd love to have one). Had a local prototyping machine shop do the work.

THaystead
1 posts
15 Aug 2020 6:13AM
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I just got a 7M echo - very nice but that second 9bleed) valve keeps popping inside the sail when I pump it up - anyone else have that issue - not sure it was necessary anyway.

bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
15 Aug 2020 9:06PM
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THaystead said..
I just got a 7M echo - very nice but that second 9bleed) valve keeps popping inside the sail when I pump it up - anyone else have that issue - not sure it was necessary anyway.


Mine was leaking, twisted and sitting side ways. The retailer pulled it out for me and reseated it (and ordered a replacement bladder), working fine now.

Dommo49
166 posts
17 Aug 2020 4:24PM
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THaystead said..
I just got a 7M echo - very nice but that second 9bleed) valve keeps popping inside the sail when I pump it up - anyone else have that issue - not sure it was necessary anyway.


Me too. I contacted the dealer who said to put a little air in it and shake it around a lot from all sides to untwist the bladder, and maybe to deflate it and do that again a few times. I did what he said and it was perfect after the 3rd time. Apparently the bladders can be twisted a bit when first inserted but can easily be untwisted using this method.

DWF
565 posts
17 Aug 2020 7:51PM
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The wings are inflated at the factory. So they are not twisted when they leave the factory. They included a QC signed label saying so.

HUGE leading edges are prone to the HUGE lose bladder inside doing wonky things. Then most people install the boom FIRST, crumpling the leading edge up by doing this, then pumping the wing up with it all crumpled up, startIng the whole process, leading to the bladder inside not shaking out, falling free and lose inside so it can move around as it inflates and not get stuck, caught, and begin to twist.

So do this every time, now that you've got it straight. Boom goes after 75% inflation.

Think about why you don't see Ozone owners complaining......THEY HAVE NO BOOM CRUMPLING THE LEADING EDGE. So leave the boom off.

bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
17 Aug 2020 10:16PM
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DWF said..
The wings are inflated at the factory. So they are not twisted when they leave the factory. They included a QC signed label saying so.

HUGE leading edges are prone to the HUGE lose bladder inside doing wonky things. Then most people install the boom FIRST, crumpling the leading edge up by doing this, then pumping the wing up with it all crumpled up, startIng the whole process, leading to the bladder inside not shaking out, falling free and lose inside so it can move around as it inflates and not get stuck, caught, and begin to twist.

So do this every time, now that you've got it straight. Boom goes after 75% inflation.

Think about why you don't see Ozone owners complaining......THEY HAVE NO BOOM CRUMPLING THE LEADING EDGE. So leave the boom off.



Excellent suggestion

dejavu
807 posts
21 Aug 2020 9:08PM
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Here's a video of the 7 metre Echo in really, really low winds. This thing looks pretty big but it seems to work in next to nothing.

KarlLQ
39 posts
22 Nov 2020 9:27AM
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Hi

I'd be interested in thoughts from Echo owners on what size wing to go to next.


I'm a complete beginner and have had 3 sessions with the original Duotone 5m on a SUP. All going well so far and ready to get on my NSP SUP foil 6'6" plus an Axis foil with 1150 & 400 wings. I weigh 70 kg and have had many years surfing and SUPing, and a bit of windsurfing 30 years ago.

I need a wing for the 20 to 30 knot wind range, which are pretty common where I live. I'm deciding between to 4m and 3.3m Echo.

The recommended wind ranges from Duotone overlap a lot!
Any thoughts?

Casso
NSW, 3764 posts
22 Nov 2020 10:34PM
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Had my new 6m Echo out yesterday in 12-15kts...

wingman
VIC, 126 posts
22 Nov 2020 11:48PM
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bigtone667 said..
Got out on a 7m echo today and it is a really nice wing.

Conditions were lake wash, 8 to 16 knots. Went out on a Naish 110 board, AXIS 1020/460HA. Weigh 105kg.

Not sure what the wind was blowing when I got onto the foil, but it was low. The wing has no flex and you get a good shape because of the retractable boom, so pumping delivers big power. As you pull the wing in, it feels like it pulls forwards giving you some nice board speed.

It is a big wing and you will drag the tip while pumping, but it releases quite easily and I did not once drag it under the board. At speed up on the foil, each time dragged the wing badly, I flipped it over.

I had some quite low wind once up on the foil, and it is pretty easy to stay up with board pumping and wing pumping.

Tacks and gybes are so much easier when you are not searching for a handle. Plus one for a boom.

It rates.


Hey Bigtone,how does your 110 float you when your slogging in on it,I've just ordered the s25 I'm about 85kgs
abit more with a wetsuit on
cheers

dejavu
807 posts
27 Nov 2020 3:32AM
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bigtone667
NSW, 1502 posts
27 Nov 2020 6:50AM
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Floter said..

bigtone667 said..
Got out on a 7m echo today and it is a really nice wing.

Conditions were lake wash, 8 to 16 knots. Went out on a Naish 110 board, AXIS 1020/460HA. Weigh 105kg.

Not sure what the wind was blowing when I got onto the foil, but it was low. The wing has no flex and you get a good shape because of the retractable boom, so pumping delivers big power. As you pull the wing in, it feels like it pulls forwards giving you some nice board speed.

It is a big wing and you will drag the tip while pumping, but it releases quite easily and I did not once drag it under the board. At speed up on the foil, each time dragged the wing badly, I flipped it over.

I had some quite low wind once up on the foil, and it is pretty easy to stay up with board pumping and wing pumping.

Tacks and gybes are so much easier when you are not searching for a handle. Plus one for a boom.

It rates.



Hey Bigtone,how does your 110 float you when your slogging in on it,I've just ordered the s25 I'm about 85kgs
abit more with a wetsuit on
cheers


Floats without any issues at all. You will have no issues at all at 85kg.

jksmurf
154 posts
16 Jan 2021 8:39AM
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Thanks to DW your clear instructions on the vid for the boom mod were really good.

Just made my 5.0 boom with a 25/22 OD/ID carbon tube, same weave as the recommended one. The end piece was hellish difficult to get out of the old boom, I put a rope through the end and around the hook and tied it to a pole and twisted it out. Sanding it down took an age as well, ended up using a coarse file to start with then went down to fine, then sandpaper.

I thought the pop-rivets might not work so well in the inside of the carbon tube (despite the glued stiffener piece for the old boom) so I thought about adding an inner sleeve to rivet into but gave up on that idea and put a through bolt in instead; partly because I don't trust it won't leak and redrilling the rivets to let water out and redo the plug (that I put in with marine grade silicone) will ruin the plastic headpiece eventually. A bolt can be easily unscrewed.I found a can of spray foam as a sealant but it was truly dreadful; ended up getting rid of it and using the silicone.

I've replaced boom grip on Windsurfing booms before but DWs taping tips were great, made it even simpler. Had to bevel the edge myself though, difficult to get straight, you really need a long steel straight edge. All in all it looks good, hope I don't fall on it day one and bust in (man the tube is thin-walled!) and I hope it helps my wife get out on the wing, she was struggling a wee bit with the original boom (although to be fair it's probably more due to the 5.0 size than weight). Did the 4.0 and If willhave a crack at another one for my 6.0. A friend got me some 22/25 ID/OD 3K carbon tubes, works really well.


Thanks again.

I have a question:

Does anyone think (or has done it) I could reduce the plastic front boom weight further by drilling a few strategic holes in it without weakening it too much? I was thinking around 8 x 8mm holes in the curved front piece (4 each side, it can't be loaded that much, I'm a civil engineer, but not a mechanical one) and maybe a few in non stressed parts of the flat?

cheers

k






dejavu
807 posts
18 Jan 2021 4:23AM
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knatti
26 posts
22 Jan 2021 2:56PM
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I tested the 7m in the snow, worked OK, but I will not use it on land whithout snow as i scraped the wing tips a coulple of times.

Goofcat
239 posts
22 Jan 2021 3:49PM
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Saw folks out riding the "Slick" here on Maui yesterday. It has an inflated strut with about a 2/3 mast in the middle. Windows like the Unit. Looks like Duotone is going hybrid and having a Echo/Unit offspring. Wing shape was like a sideways D

Jethrow
NSW, 1224 posts
22 Jan 2021 10:53PM
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Awww, and I was gunna patent the term "Sideways D" Goofcat!

DWF
565 posts
22 Jan 2021 8:18PM
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jksmurf said..


Does anyone think (or has done it) I could reduce the plastic front boom weight further by drilling a few strategic holes in it without weakening it too much?



Don't do it. A wave did this. Wing no damage. Boom end bent.

3TOB
15 posts
6 Feb 2021 1:09AM
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dejavu said..
DWF -- great video. Very helpful. Keep them coming!


Thank you. Glad I saw this video. What are your recommendations for hanging duotone echo's to dry? Can you hang them from the front - i hear this is a no-no for wings with center strut bladders as the bladder in the center strut can drop down. Not an issue with the echo I presume, but what about the leading edge bladder?



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"New Duotone Echo Wing" started by dejavu