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StinkBug Wingfoil Start,maybe the only start you need...

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Created by mcrt 1 month ago, 24 Aug 2021
mcrt
308 posts
24 Aug 2021 10:51PM
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Well,it's POV video and it sucks for this purpose (sorry) but if you set the speed to slow and read the step by step i think you will see it clearly.

Credit to Cnski and some other forums users who came up with this in a thread somewhere here or the Standup zone...


This works quicker and with less effort than normal knee start.No balance phase.Great for choppy conditions and in waves to get out of Dodge ASAP.
First vid is on an 85l (for my 70kg)
Second vid is on a 40l surfprone board.

Step by Step:

-Board across wind
-Sail across nose of board,front hand holding normal front sailing handle.
-Climb on board under wing and get on knees.Stay bent low (stinkbug).
If you loose balance to leeward put back hand on boom strut for balance.
-Grab back handle and lift front hand,wing will fly to umbrella and support you.If leeward tip tries to catch water on lift try moving back hand forward as you lift the front.
-Get board moving,on feet and on foil."

This is on the 85l:



This is on the 40l.Second time i ride it.First time(months ago) i managed to get going once with the standard knee start after lots of swearing and board shooting up towards the sail.
With the StinkBug it is way easier.
Just use the front sailing handle to lean on (you cannot sink it).Then you get knees on board controlling board with back hand.

tangogeoff
29 posts
25 Aug 2021 2:42AM
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Thanks for sharing, more people need to know about this. Sooooo much easier than the usual knee start!

Can555
131 posts
25 Aug 2021 4:27AM
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I use this way to start all the time. So much faster than any other I've seen, though I'm open to better ways! Game changer once you get it dialled for fast restarts between swell/waves.

Velocicraptor
60 posts
25 Aug 2021 5:05AM
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Can someone explain the difference between this and a standard knee start? Is it just that you are putting your hands on the handles while the wing is still on your board? Looks pretty similar to how I've always started, so I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something.

mcrt
308 posts
25 Aug 2021 5:26AM
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Velocicraptor said..
Can someone explain the difference between this and a standard knee start? Is it just that you are putting your hands on the handles while the wing is still on your board? Looks pretty similar to how I've always started, so I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something.



Standard knee start the wing lies to leeward of the board,lying on the water.You get to your knees,balance ,and then you raise the wing from the water and place it over your head.

The Stinkbug puts the Wing on top from the beginning,no balancing while you lift the wing from leeward to above.It is already above you.

Maybe you were already doing it this way?.

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
25 Aug 2021 6:54AM
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Be good to see this from a third person point of view as well. Video is not super clear.

tangogeoff
29 posts
25 Aug 2021 7:33AM
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The standard knee start for me is climb onto the board, wobble around until I get my balance in chop/swell etc, balancing with my hands on the wing, then wrench the wing out of the water as fast as I can and gain stability, then stand.
The difference with this is that you're flying the wing before you even get your knees on the board.
Clambering onto the board on your knees with the wing already flying means that you're already balanced and have cut out the wildly unstable stage.
The first time that I gave it a go I burst out laughing because it was so much easier than what I'd been doing.

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
25 Aug 2021 8:17AM
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I wonder how this would go for a true sinker board. Like a 75kg dude on a 34 litre (less than half weight to volume).??
Vid on the 85 litre is good but cant really see whats happening on the 40l.
but it looks like a great idea. Will try it.

hilly
WA, 6252 posts
25 Aug 2021 8:18AM
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eppo said..
Be good to see this from a third person point of view as well. Video is not super clear.


Yep I have tried it and failed. Need to see a better vid.

Foilnut
104 posts
25 Aug 2021 8:46AM
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Well I tried a bunch of times to post a youtube video that may cover this but could not get it to work

Go to you tube and past in text below in the search bar. This maybe what Mcrt meant?

WingFoil take off technique, flying the wing the whole time.


hilly
WA, 6252 posts
25 Aug 2021 9:08AM
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Thanks that is good. Yep that is what I tried, and failed at

drlazone
55 posts
25 Aug 2021 9:32AM
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Youtube link does not work for some reason.
I just uploaded to Vimeo. Hopefully this works.

mcrt
308 posts
25 Aug 2021 9:38AM
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Good,thx for posting this!

I see that my sh/##y POV videos are kind of deepening the confusion :)
This vid will help.


What this guy does is pretty much what i do on the sinker 40l.
When done in the water the board sinks and the front hand is just under water pushing down the front handle.This creates a super stable point because you cannot sink the wing.
As in this vid my back hand grabs the board (he uses the footstrap,i use the rail) to control the board as you climb on it under the wing.

On the 85l i just rest the front hand&handle on top of the board.

drlazone
55 posts
25 Aug 2021 9:56AM
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If on flat water, either methods work.
When in big tight waves with chop (we are 2-6 sec periods on the great lakes with head to overhead waves regularly on windy days in the Canadian Great lakes.
This is when this method shine.
The downwind tip of the wing and fuselage sit in the water if you don't raise your wing too high, and you can just sit there all tripod stable waves and all, and because your elbow is at the front of the board with the wing slightly powered, you move across the wind, not downwind.

hilly
WA, 6252 posts
25 Aug 2021 10:27AM
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drlazone said..
If on flat water, either methods work.
When in big tight waves with chop (we are 2-6 sec periods on the great lakes with head to overhead waves regularly on windy days in the Canadian Great lakes.
This is when this method shine.
The downwind tip of the wing and fuselage sit in the water if you don't raise your wing too high, and you can just sit there all tripod stable waves and all, and because your elbow is at the front of the board with the wing slightly powered, you move across the wind, not downwind.


It sounds good I just need to try it again. Thanks for the tips everyone.

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
25 Aug 2021 11:26AM
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hilly said..

drlazone said..
If on flat water, either methods work.
When in big tight waves with chop (we are 2-6 sec periods on the great lakes with head to overhead waves regularly on windy days in the Canadian Great lakes.
This is when this method shine.
The downwind tip of the wing and fuselage sit in the water if you don't raise your wing too high, and you can just sit there all tripod stable waves and all, and because your elbow is at the front of the board with the wing slightly powered, you move across the wind, not downwind.



It sounds good I just need to try it again. Thanks for the tips everyone.


Exactly, especially in winter when the ocean water and swell is all over the place. Cheers everyone.

Youngbreezy
WA, 793 posts
25 Aug 2021 1:50PM
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Yeah nice, I am liking this technique and can see why it's called the stink bug. Can definitely see how it will make things more stable and quicker.

Thanks!

winddoc
NSW, 35 posts
25 Aug 2021 8:28PM
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I fail to see why you call it stink bug.
In Australia, we call it lizzard drinking water posture.

MidAtlanticFoil
237 posts
26 Aug 2021 2:22AM
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Here's a great vid showing the stink bug followed by a cool modified sinker stink bug start



mcrt
308 posts
26 Aug 2021 3:21AM
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MidAtlanticFoil said..
Here's a great vid showing the stink bug followed by a cool modified sinker stink bug start





The first one is veryclose to what i do on the sinker,but i pull the wing all the way on top of me before getting on the board.So the leading edge would be upwind of my head,whole boom resting across board and then resting on the water as i sink the board and balance on front hand.
This might work just as good though.

The second vid looks like a standard knee start?

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
26 Aug 2021 6:29AM
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There are some noticeable differences with those vids above. More side on initially, hand not on front handle yet. Then hands on front and back, get power then shuffle knees around. Ones up top you already have front hand on handle, wing across fromt of board, using front handle to lever up and knees already facing front. Etc.

Youngbreezy
WA, 793 posts
26 Aug 2021 8:21PM
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Well I went out and tried it today. I managed a couple good ones and it felt great. Very functional way to approach the wing. It was taking me a while today as I was learning but I can see how it will be way quicker when I've practised it.

From watching the vids above I think I was a bit more straight on my board. I think getting a bit more side on will help. Also I buried the trailing edge in the water a couple times. I think I was letting the board drift downwind a bit as I was getting to my knees.

Will keep practicing as I can see this is the way forward. Thanks for tips and inspiration!!

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:06PM
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I tried it on a true sinker at 34 litres (4'5) and i dont think its functional for that. Will try again but the board just sinks too far (well below knees). I think its a good option for mid volume boards below body weight. But as i said will try again but maybe when its bloody warmer.

broVan
55 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:44PM
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I do a modified stinkbug. Instead of going to both knees, I go with back knee just infront of rear strap and front leg goes straight to foot. then I just stand up with the pull of the wing helping to lift. If I do a two knee start, I always place my knees just in front of straps instead of side by side like in the clip. That way I can trim the fore and aft which can be a ****show at times on my 80L. It was a struggle for a few sessions but now its all muscle memory. The lighter the wind, the harder the stinkbug is. A ding that has a lot of dihedral like the Dart, gives me more room to crawl up under the wing. I can't really do it on the SS V2 as good as the Dart.

mcrt
308 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:51PM
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Youngbreezy said..
Well I went out and tried it today. I managed a couple good ones and it felt great. Very functional way to approach the wing. It was taking me a while today as I was learning but I can see how it will be way quicker when I've practised it.

From watching the vids above I think I was a bit more straight on my board. I think getting a bit more side on will help. Also I buried the trailing edge in the water a couple times. I think I was letting the board drift downwind a bit as I was getting to my knees.

Will keep practicing as I can see this is the way forward. Thanks for tips and inspiration!!


I did go through a phase (on the 85l) where the board was veering nose downwind as i climbed on a bit from the rear.Then the trailing edge or downwind wingtip would catch.

To fix try this:

-Setup with board pointing slightly upwind.Wing across front third of board.
-Get on board from the side instead of from the back.
-Keep head close to the boom strut all the time.
-Balance weight so board lies flat,if you let the tail sink and nose go up it will pivot downwind.Do not be afraid to put weight on the front hand holding the wing.Board may sink under if you overdo it but wing will float and hold no matter what.
-If you feel the downwind tip trying to catch as you begin to lift the wing bring it down flat a bit and push back hand forward.

-The whole thing becomes super quick (<5secs on the 85l?) from in the water to knee sailing with very little practice,no time for board to veer anywhere.

mcrt
308 posts
26 Aug 2021 10:20PM
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eppo said..
I tried it on a true sinker at 34 litres (4'5) and i dont think its functional for that. Will try again but the board just sinks too far (well below knees). I think its a good option for mid volume boards below body weight. But as i said will try again but maybe when its bloody warmer.


How much do you weigh?
I am about 70kg(75 with a wet 4/3 and helmet?) for 40l 5feet Gong Matata.

For me the key to stinkbugging the sinker was hanging onto that front handle while under the wing as you maneuver on board.

It is a rock solid balance point ,as soon as the board goes under a bit the whole boom and leading edge are resting on the water.Huge volume very spread out.
I do not have a smaller board but i think it could actually be easier to submerge?.
My hardest work was controlling that sucker from corking out.

I grab back hand on leeward rail,leeward footstrap if you have it.
Front hand leaning on windward rail,use elbow as it sinks
Back knee on first,then front.
Grab back handle
Balance and shuffle knees all you need now,you should be rock solid with all the boom resting on the water and both hands on handles.

StephenZ
VIC, 50 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:47AM
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This is the start that I do, or a version of it. I hardly ever do a standard knee start and when I do I wonder why as this start is so much easier.
In my version I hold onto front handle as when I'm riding, use both elbows to lever up onto board, pull up back knee first, sort of lying prone at this stage, grab back handle, then onto knees etc. If it's reasonably windy this can all happen in a continuous movement, so can be from in water to on foil in 3-5 seconds.
My board 4'8", 85l, so it's pretty neutrally bouyant at my weight 78kg plus winter wetsuit. I suspect this technique would be even easier with slightly less volume. I think for my body weight around 50 - 55l could be the sweet spot in decent wind, and maybe doable from 40 - 45, but I haven't yet had an opportunity to try.

eppo
WA, 8418 posts
27 Aug 2021 6:36AM
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mcrt said..

eppo said..
I tried it on a true sinker at 34 litres (4'5) and i dont think its functional for that. Will try again but the board just sinks too far (well below knees). I think its a good option for mid volume boards below body weight. But as i said will try again but maybe when its bloody warmer.



How much do you weigh?
I am about 70kg(75 with a wet 4/3 and helmet?) for 40l 5feet Gong Matata.

For me the key to stinkbugging the sinker was hanging onto that front handle while under the wing as you maneuver on board.

It is a rock solid balance point ,as soon as the board goes under a bit the whole boom and leading edge are resting on the water.Huge volume very spread out.
I do not have a smaller board but i think it could actually be easier to submerge?.
My hardest work was controlling that sucker from corking out.

I grab back hand on leeward rail,leeward footstrap if you have it.
Front hand leaning on windward rail,use elbow as it sinks
Back knee on first,then front.
Grab back handle
Balance and shuffle knees all you need now,you should be rock solid with all the boom resting on the water and both hands on handles.


Im 75kg. I have come off a 40l - 5 foot amos. Theres a noticeable difference down to the 34/35 litre plus board deck width and length.
but was only first go in decent ocean swell. Went back to my squat method in the end as downwind had some nasty stuff waiting.

so not writing it off altogether. Will definitely try it on my bigger non sinker next time.


that being said i prone anyhow so getting on board is just a kind of duck dive for me using the squat method. Also with squat you are already on your feet. Be interesting going from knees to feet on a small prone.

Gorgo
VIC, 4681 posts
27 Aug 2021 12:26PM
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I had a bit of a random problem when I would roll backwards off the board as waves and things pushed the board around.

I solved that by doing the knees facing forward bit, but I also face the board downwind away from the waves. The waves simply push the board along with very little rolling action. Staying low and compressed is also helpful when things are very hectic. It's like the latter part of the stinkbug thing.

In very strong conditions I want to avoid the board leaping up on the foil and stalling as I rise. I weight the knee of my back leg and press down in front of the mast.

When ready to rise up I plant my front foot a little further forward than usual, press on my back knee and come up in a fluid motion. Depending on conditions I come up smoothly on the foil, or come up, move my front foot back a little and foil away.

In very strong conditions it's important to rise up using more leg power than wing power and the board loaded in front of the mast. Too much load on the wing can cause it to pitch up and throw you off backwards.

mcrt
308 posts
27 Aug 2021 1:55PM
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eppo said..

Be interesting going from knees to feet on a small prone.


Interestingly frustrating for me on the first tries, yes indeed.

I am very inexperienced with the sinker so i U-Boated around for a few miles :) before i realized that you cannot just kneel there and wait for a gust to do all your work.
Submerged is dead slow and slow is unstable,very easy to screw up and very hard to get to feet.

Once i got a bit active pumping the wing and board (even tiny,quick and short pumps on knees) it came up to the surface very quick even in the lulls.

Once it is on surface it starts moving forward easily and you get plenty of stability to go from knees to feet.

But this is beyond the Stinkbug, it is only meant to take you as far as sailing on knees or back knee&front foot as BroVan does.
The rest is business as usual for guys who already wing sinkers.



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"StinkBug Wingfoil Start,maybe the only start you need..." started by mcrt