Forums > Kitesurfing General

Kiting v wing foiling v windsurfing state of play

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Created by Bowerboy > 9 months ago, 31 Jan 2022
Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
31 Jan 2022 9:57AM
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I live in Sydney, grew up loving sailboarding. A year ago I chose to learn kitesurfing over wing foiling and windsurfing. Mainly because my mates do it.

Having kited various beaches across summer, long reef, palm beach etc, here are my observations of the current state of play.

Wing foiling is becoming very popular on the Northern beaches. There are lots of people enthusiastically getting into it. The sport has been a great injection of much needed $ and interest. From my viewpoint it looks pretty hard to learn, whereas the kite, with good gear, is pretty easy to learn and gentle on your body.

There are a few wavesailors around, but the kites are so much more nimble in the waves.

Certainly in decent surf the kite is so much easier, having the ability to jump white water, and turn quickly to avoid big closing sets.

Based on what I've seen the kite is easily the best for summer surf out of all the equipment. Especially with Sydney's fickle winds and shallow shifting sandbanks.

I know I am biased but for fun in breaking surf, the kite seems to be dominating. I can see the advantage of the wing foil during winter off shore westerlies, but during the summer onshore breezes the kite offers so much more.

What is it like where you live?

johndg
WA, 206 posts
31 Jan 2022 10:43AM
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The million dollar question! The easy answer is to do what you love and to challenge yourself in my view.

Like you I grew up windsurfing buying my first board in 1977. It was a great time as it was the first time everyone could have their own mini sailing boat. With time the sport quickly progressed becoming much more specialised and expensive as well as technical. Kiting was a natural progression and with today's equipment is much easier to learn than windsurfing. The hurdle for most is getting over the early kitemares and feeling the kite without looking at it. With time foiling has really taken over, in sailing, windsurfing, kiting, surfing, sup and now wingfoiling. Foiling is coming along real fast and the equipment is interchangeable with all sports so somehow we all speak a common language and it brings us all together.

These days I mainly wingfoil. It is simple, and I think the easiest windsport to learn. What I like is that it brings together people from all backgrounds and in these early days where we are all on the learning curve, there is an openness to helping each other. It is has a huge wind range - I can get up in 10 to 12 knots and go all the way up. I dont need great conditions and what is normally crappy conditions are great for foiling.

I still have my kites, collecting a little more dust than I would like. Enjoy your kiting, respect other users and remember we are all here to have fun.

snalberski
WA, 857 posts
31 Jan 2022 11:44AM
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As above abridged to what ever floats your boat

KBGhost
QLD, 260 posts
1 Feb 2022 8:38AM
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You're asking this in the kite forum not the ding forum, so I would expect answers skewed that way.
Based on my observations:

I don't see any need to windsurf unless you already have the gear and the skills and the trailer needed to lug the gear around, and like going really really fast in a dead straight line until you reach some land where you can stop and change direction. Ding is clearly a huge evolution from that.

Ding is the king at the moment. Like SUP was 10 years ago it's super accessible for the whole family and massively trendy. However despite being easier to learn it's not as good as kite foil in almost every situation. The gear is big and heavy in comparison, the fat leading edges look like primitive 1st gen kites. .

Kite is the best wind foil. Pocket boards are superb, having no swing weight allows you to carve around in a way that massive floaty ding boards never will. Feels like flying looking down, just water in front. Having your power 25m above and being able to loop allows you to make the most of better wind than surface wind, and generate far bigger power spikes. Not having your face blocked by a huge sail is so much better, I couldn't handle doing my sport looking at a dacron wall. Tiny light gear compared to two trips to get your ding from car to beach. No leashes compared to 2 leashes to tangle when you stack.

If you live somewhere with consistent stronger wind, large running swell, and a tricky launch spot, and chase pure depowered downwind wave riding, ding beats kite for sure. In any other situation, if you have the skill, kite.

wishy
WA, 1501 posts
3 Feb 2022 6:30PM
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For me it's pretty simple:
More airtime = More better = Kitesurfing

Perth has nice strong wind so that probably causes some bias because you really can jump nice and high.

thedoor
2190 posts
19 Mar 2022 2:45PM
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Haven't kited in ten years, but recently I have been getting a bit of a kite itch.

Lots of our flat water kiters have seemed to have switched to the wing, but at our primary wave riding spot the kites remain plentiful.

Mark _australia
WA, 22089 posts
22 Mar 2022 7:51PM
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Where there is actually stronger wind there are still more windsurfers (I mean wavesailing) but in flat places like Perth where the river is a great option but the ocean sailing doesn't have real wave riding its more balanced numbers......
But I think most people from each sport now do dinging, or foil SUP or whatever as a secondary things now foils are all the rage.

Peahi
VIC, 1467 posts
23 Mar 2022 2:00PM
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I think you're right on most points. Kiting in surf in Vicco is the next best (or better) thing to surfing. But getting to the ocean facing coast requires a bit more commitment and a much longer drive unless you live down there, so most of us get by on windswell in the bay.

Wing foiling seems an advantage in unbroken rolling waves way out to sea and in cross/off conditions and ability to fully depower. But most wingers I see just go back and forth in a straight line in the bay, or sometimes try to ride some windswell. I never see them in open ocean beaches (they would get probably smashed by the shorebreak) but would do well in outer reefs or protected pointbreaks (I still don't ever see any though).

I'm told winging is easier to learn, most poleys tell me they're too scared of a kite. Those that kite probably stopped progressing and needed a new challenge and/or were already kite foiling and/or have preference for lighter winds

Kiting imo gives the closest experience to surfing a wave, and you can quickly move around, get close to and turn in critical sections of a breaking wave, smack a lip, drop a floatie, jump etc.

Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
24 Mar 2022 2:33PM
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Wing foiling is big where I live (Nth Beaches Sydney) and the elite guys like James Casey seem to exclusively wing foil or foil now. Kiters and foilers interact the most at Fishermans beach in a NE. There usually seem to be about equal numbers. One thing I have noticed though is that new kiters like me (started a year ago) are zinging around having a great time, without too many problems. The guys who started wing foiling a year or so ago are still struggling quite a bit in the rougher waters. Come the southerly and the water gets really rough, the kiters have a distinct advantage.

Overall it seems the biggest losers in all this has been the ocean sup crew. Most of those guys have gone to wing foiling which has decimated sup racing locally.

Sheps
WA, 43 posts
24 Mar 2022 2:00PM
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I've been a passionate wave kite surfer for quite a long time, then got on the foil three years ago and used it a lot in waves up until the end of last season. I love riding waves and will try anything to ride what little waves we have here in WA. This season I started wing foiling and spent a lot of time "mowing the lawn" whilst learning and my early attempts at wave riding were tough, I ended up downwind despite being super confident with kite foiling in waves. Like everything, takes a bit of time to get into something so I kept trying as I liked what I saw other wingers doing. Recently it all come together for me and I got the right set up and skills to ride some waves. I'm now hooked and definitely disagree with those who don't think it's close to surfing. I'm my opinion I've never felt more connected with the wave than on a wing foil. With Kiting you're never quite sure if the kite is pulling you, and looping to keep it in the air when on the wave inevitably pulls you somewhere you don't want to go. It's kite first, board second with kitesurfing. Not that way with wing foiling. It's board first, wing second. Connection with the wave is wonderful. I still love a good downwinder on the surfboard, hard to beat, but on smaller days and staying in one spot, winging is way more fun. If you like getting power from what we have in the ocean here is WA, winging is the way to go. My 2 cents worth anyway.

lotofwind
NSW, 6450 posts
25 Mar 2022 7:36PM
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^^ Yeah agreed, I think thats why so many windsurfers are now full time wingers. Especially in WA
That and you dont need to buy a semi to get your gear to the beach.
The simplicity of the gear needed, no pole/sail blocking your view and not a powerful kite and scary lines to deal with which seemed to worry them.
More pure wave riding, than sailing in waves.

Flying Dutchman
WA, 1329 posts
25 Mar 2022 10:59PM
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Winging is great if you don't like throwing buckets or hitting lips & you're not dealing with the inside reef at Gnaraloo.

riddim1
QLD, 147 posts
26 Mar 2022 6:10PM
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Select to expand quote
Flying Dutchman said..
Winging is great if you don't like throwing buckets or hitting lips & you're not dealing with the inside reef at Gnaraloo.



Nuff said..
Summed up in one picture

Froth Goth
332 posts
26 Mar 2022 4:23PM
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Select to expand quote
Flying Dutchman said..
Winging is great if you don't like throwing buckets or hitting lips & you're not dealing with the inside reef at Gnaraloo.



Rad photo hahaha
Thats so hilarious its like how kooky kiters made windsurfers look

Theres a ladder dingers and your on the faaaaaar bottom
"Traditional" surfing being ontop of course

NAKA
WA, 5 posts
26 Mar 2022 9:05PM
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I live in Mid West WA and there is usually plenty of wind and waves. Watching the wing dingers for me looks like their mowing the lawn and emptying the catcher. When you talk to them on the beach they are absolutely frothing and bragging about how exhilarating it is. I'm going to have give it a go, but not before I turn 70 and that's still 9 mounts away.

drlazone
135 posts
28 Mar 2022 12:31AM
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Select to expand quote
NAKA said..
I live in Mid West WA and there is usually plenty of wind and waves. Watching the wing dingers for me looks like their mowing the lawn and emptying the catcher. When you talk to them on the beach they are absolutely frothing and bragging about how exhilarating it is. I'm going to have give it a go, but not before I turn 70 and that's still 9 mounts away.


I like to describe wingfoiling as doing a yoga pose on one foot in 30 knots.
Looks dreadfully boring to the observer.
But to the person doing it, it's anything but static, like most sports, the best make it look effortless (too effortless for many watching).

Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
29 Mar 2022 6:46PM
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From a social perspective there's no doubt that kiting and dinging have brought something special to the table. Because of them everyone can now do fun water sports with their girlfriends and grandfathers.

Not everyone can make the investments in time, practise, physical conditioning, skill building and personal commitment that windsurfing requires, and that's fine. However, for the few that do reach those dizzying, soul-shifting heights; they know truly what it means to be a breed apart.

Mark _australia
WA, 22089 posts
29 Mar 2022 6:44PM
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^^ I'm glad you said that, Mr or Ms Vodka might rethink if they have ever seen aerials like that at Gnaraloo with the kiters making windsurfers look kooky

Froth Goth
332 posts
30 Mar 2022 4:36AM
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Taught windsurfing for a few seasons matey even built a simulator on some far flung honeymoon island for it useing casterwheels from a stolen office chair from out the back of the police headquarters

Fat cops
broken chairs

The only thing that actually impresses me with windsurfing tho is logging gps runs to compete ona global ladder. We do this with paragliding and rockclimbing the fact that its not done with the other sports is kind of hilarious its not hard all the old men already logging tracks just need someone to throw up a server and battle country to country state to state daily tables etc etc have a squiz
www.xcontest.org/world/en/flights/daily-score-pg/#filter[date]=2022-03-29@filter[date]=2022-03-29

Mark _australia
WA, 22089 posts
30 Mar 2022 7:44AM
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Cool story. So what you meant was back then kiters made you look kooky.

BTW - GPS Team Challenge that's been running for years.

www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/

Sandee
QLD, 145 posts
30 Mar 2022 9:51AM
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vodka said..
The only thing that actually impresses me with windsurfing tho is logging gps runs to compete ona global ladder.

I'm sure the vast majority of participants in any of these great sports are doing it for other reasons besides impressing 'legends' like yourself, or to compete with strangers across the globe somewhere, with vastly different sailing conditions!
How about doing sports for fun, fitness, maybe an adrenalin kick, or whatever. But unless you're a cute chick on a beach, I doubt anyone cares much about impressing you.

rongroen
WA, 74 posts
30 Mar 2022 8:26AM
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Select to expand quote
vodka said..
Taught windsurfing for a few seasons matey even built a simulator on some far flung honeymoon island for it useing casterwheels from a stolen office chair from out the back of the police headquarters

Fat cops
broken chairs

The only thing that actually impresses me with windsurfing tho is logging gps runs to compete ona global ladder. We do this with paragliding and rockclimbing the fact that its not done with the other sports is kind of hilarious its not hard all the old men already logging tracks just need someone to throw up a server and battle country to country state to state daily tables etc etc have a squiz
www.xcontest.org/world/en/flights/daily-score-pg/#filter[date]=2022-03-29@filter[date]=2022-03-29


If you want a log you could join GPSFormula or www.gpsformula.com/discipline

Phoney
NSW, 583 posts
30 Mar 2022 1:16PM
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The other day I had a windinger on a foilboard coming straight towards me in an zigzag formation, I couldn't workout whether he wanted to pass to the left or the right of me, so I just kept my tack on straight ahead and let him figure it out. He was the one that decided to come in on an oncoming path after all. He made a last second veer off to one side and then screamed out 'F'kn D'head' as he passed. How anyone thinks these knobheads are cool is beyond me. I was tempted to knock him over with my kite after that.

One thing I've noticed is that at least there seems to be less kiters on foil boards now. I guess unlike mr knobhead above they go wingding foiling somewhere else (not cruising amongst 30+ kiters).

Froth Goth
332 posts
1 Apr 2022 7:36PM
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You all talk like you have never seen what happens when a camera on a tripod gets set up on a kite beach?

patronus
336 posts
15 Apr 2022 3:49PM
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Great forum this. In my bit of UK windsurfing is thriving in local wave spot alongside some kiters, slowly dieing elsewhere, kiters dominate other shared beaches, with only a few kitefoiling.
Winging is growing rapidly and getting people onto the water who would never has started kiting or windsurfing. Few ever seriously SUPped though pottering about is common.
For me windsurfing has the feeling of power, somehow more immersed the sea and wind elements. Kiting is easiest to get to fun level and progress beyond (though I haven't). Started winging and miss the contact with water, but flying in unbelievably light winds is like magic. Local kitefoilers won't go when that light as tend to be fickle and kite'll drop out of sky.



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"Kiting v wing foiling v windsurfing state of play" started by Bowerboy